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   Descent BB Forum Index > Descent Old School > mouselook still sux (or does it?) split from d2x poll Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
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Rook
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 1:04 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

anything with mouselook should be eliminated immediately. mouselook in Descent was a stupid fkn idea.

_________________
"I too, am exercising restraint... !".-- Stresstest
Diedel
Rookie




PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 2:52 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Did you try it so that you know what you're talking about?

You can turn it off, that's good enough. And those who want it can turn it on.

So where's the problem.
Rook
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 3:28 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Diedel wrote:
Did you try it so that you know what you're talking about?


I know what mouselook is dude. dont ask stupid questions. why would you introduce 2 sets of standards? those that can turn instantly and those that can't. that you DON'T see the problem is the amazing part.

basically mouselook is a groundpounder idea that does not belong in descent. its bad enough that lame ass MAC users have been exploiting this for years in D3 without you bringing it to the other descent versions.

ps welcome to the BB.

_________________
"I too, am exercising restraint... !".-- Stresstest
Testiculese
Insane!




PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 4:12 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

As a mouser, I see no justification for it in online games.

(I have no idea what I'm talking about in reference to d2x, tho' Smile)

_________________
There are four boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order.
Diedel
Rookie




PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 4:28 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

In multiplayer, it is host controlled and disabled if the host isn't using D2X-XL at all.

In singleplayer it can be turned off.

So everybody can have it as they want. I wonder what is to discuss about here.

You are entitled to not liking mouse look and turning it off.

I am not gonna remove it completely because someone thinks I should.

Turn it off if you don't like it, or have a non-D2X-XL user host your multiplayer game, or don't use D2X-XL at all.

Personally, in multiplayer I would submit to the majority's decision about mouselook, but I prefer it on.

This entire discussion is totally superfluous.

My last word on this.
Rook
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 4:43 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Testiculese wrote:
As a mouser, I see no justification for it in online games.

(I have no idea what I'm talking about in reference to d2x, tho' Smile)


Diedel has added it to his D2XXL or whatever it is called, that is the reference Dave.

_________________
"I too, am exercising restraint... !".-- Stresstest
++fyrephlie++
DBB PostBot




PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 10:37 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

turning of any kind is h4x!!!

_________________
(19:45:53) JBOMBnsht : go brokebackmountain on that ass and fuck a dude...change it up..ya never know
Testiculese
Insane!




PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 5:31 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

By 'host controlled' do you mean that the server can disable it for all players?

Then what's the problem everyone seems to have about it?

_________________
There are four boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order.
Diedel
Rookie




PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 5:36 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Testiculese wrote:
By 'host controlled' do you mean that the server can disable it for all players?

Exactly. Above that, D2X-XL clients find out whether the game host (server) is using D2X-XL or not, and if not, mouselook is disabled. Even if the server allows mouselook, you can still locally turn it off, if you prefer.
Testiculese wrote:
Then what's the problem everyone seems to have about it?
I don't know.

Maybe some believe it could still work in some magical way, or they think I am just lying about it because I want to cheat, or whatever.

Maybe it's easier to cling to that kind of magical thinking instead of simply trying it out.

Anyway, if someone really wants to cheat all he needs to do is to grab the D2X(-XL/-Rebirth) source code and modify it.

Mouselook can be turned off (actually I should say: can be turned on, as it is off by default), and that can be verified and is good enough.

So wtf.

I think that Ferno is behind all this because he tries to spread this misinformation (to put it nicely) about D2X-XL for weeks and months now. Someone even went so far to manipulate the Wikipedia entry about Descent and wrote D2X-XL was incompatible to other D2 versions particularly in multiplayer, which is nothing but a blatant lie. I don't think the circle of candidates for such an action is very big (two at most, to be exact).

D2X-XL even adds a lot of convenient features particularly to multiplayer, like reporting whether a player is typing a message or has invoked a menu to all other players (-> blinking "Typing..." message appears over player ship). The game browser informs you whether a certain server runs a D1 or a D2 mission. You have additional and improved game modes, like Entropy, or a CTF mode that deserves the name. Above all that, you can play directly using UDP/IP, and tracker support makes game matching simple. Currently, Zach Briggs, KoolBear and I are building support for HighOctane's online gaming service into D2X-XL, allowing to launch and joins missions right from that program.

I think I have also gained a reputation for reacting to bug reports very quickly and adding almost every feature to D2X-XL the users want.

So imo D2X-XL should be the program of choice for all Descent 2 multiplayer matches.
Rook
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 11:16 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

as I already said:
Rook wrote:
basically mouselook is a groundpounder idea that does not belong in descent.

_________________
"I too, am exercising restraint... !".-- Stresstest
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 11:40 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Rook wrote:
as I already said:
Rook wrote:
basically mouselook is a groundpounder idea that does not belong in descent.

D3 always had the same function D2X now has. What's the big deal again ?
Rook
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 12:44 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

I didnt say it was a big deal I just said it sux ass and doesnt belong in Descent. Just because the people that killed the descent series introduced it doesnt mean its a good idea does it?
Plus originally from what I read it was ON by default. Which means Diedel was trying to slip a quick one by us as he uses mouselook.
Now that it is off by default what was the point of including? Only an idiot or cheating mouse using server admin would switch it on.

_________________
"I too, am exercising restraint... !".-- Stresstest
Diedel
Rookie




PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 2:38 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

You're not the only D2 player in the world. I don't care what you believe, I care what people want, and if some want it, it has a place in D2. Period.

If you don't like it, turn it off.
Testiculese
Insane!




PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 2:44 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Given my framerate in D2, I'd probably only be able to turn 3-4 degrees every slide of the mouse..(or is this fixed so I can turn as fast as D3 with whatever framerate d2x gives me?) where I would need mouselook to keep up with joysticks? Is the mouselook sensitivity configurable, or at a capped limit? (Maybe capping it would be a good idea).

I don't have it installed, hence I still don't know what I'm talking about Smile

_________________
There are four boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order.
Diedel
Rookie




PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 4:27 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Mouse sensitivity is adjustable.

I cannot really tell how fast you could turn with mouselook on in D2X-XL, but you have to be aware of the fact that mouselook makes the mouse very very very very very sensitive, so the backdraw of it is that aiming gets harder.

D2X-XL fixes all flaws of D2's mouse handling though - even w/o mouselook, you will get good response regardless of framerate (which is capped at 250 by D2X-XL for technical reason - time resolution is too coarse causing the ship to apparently freeze at very high framerates due to movement 'quantums' being time-slice dependant).

Personally, if I play w/o mouselook, I get stuck at every corner though. I just can't turn, it's no comparison to playing with a stick (which I am not good at either - can turn now, but can't hit ... Rolling Eyes ). There's mousers who have mastered this hurdle (e.g. Suncho), but I never managed to.

To whoever calls me a 'cheater' I can only reply that I am none of a problem as D2 opponent for a good D2 player, whether I use mouselook or not. For me, mouselook is the difference between having a little fun and none at all when playing D2. Wink

Actually, I am the supporting guy, working in the background and preparing the stuff others have fun with, and not the player type. Smile
Testiculese
Insane!




PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:05 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

The trick to turning with the mouse is to use turning keys on the keyboard to compliment.

_________________
There are four boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order.
Diedel
Rookie




PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:50 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

I know, but I still suck. Rolling Eyes

("complement" Wink)
++fyrephlie++
DBB PostBot




PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:40 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

testiculese = mobius'd by diedel

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

complement
7 entries found for complement.

Main Entry: 1com·ple·ment
Pronunciation: 'käm-pl&-m&nt
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin complementum, from complEre to fill up, complete, from com- + plEre to fill -- more at FULL
1 a : something that fills up, completes , or makes perfect b : the quantity or number required to make a thing complete <the usual complement of eyes and ears -- Francis Parkman>; especially : the whole force or personnel of a ship c : one of two mutually completing parts : COUNTERPART
2 a : the angle or arc that when added to a given angle or arc equals a right angle in measure b : the set of all elements that do not belong to a given set and are contained in a particular mathematical set containing the given set c : a number that when added to another number of the same sign yields zero if the significant digit farthest to the left is discarded -- used especially in assembly language programming
3 : the musical interval required with a given interval to complete the octave
4 : an added word or expression by which a predication is made complete (as president in "they elected him president" and beautiful in "he thought her beautiful")
5 : the thermolabile group of proteins in normal blood serum and plasma that in combination with antibodies causes the destruction especially of particulate antigens (as bacteria and foreign blood corpuscles)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

compliment
2 entries found for compliment.

Main Entry: 1com·pli·ment
Pronunciation: 'käm-pl&-m&nt
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from Italian complimento, from Spanish cumplimiento, from cumplir to be courteous -- more at COMPLY
1 a : an expression of esteem, respect, affection, or admiration; especially : an admiring remark b : formal and respectful recognition : HONOR
2 plural : best wishes : REGARDS <accept my compliments> <compliments of the season>

_________________
(19:45:53) JBOMBnsht : go brokebackmountain on that ass and fuck a dude...change it up..ya never know
Rook
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:59 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

wtf does that post mean?

_________________
"I too, am exercising restraint... !".-- Stresstest
Testiculese
Insane!




PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:40 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Yep, should have used the 'e'.

_________________
There are four boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order.
Diedel
Rookie




PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:21 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

++fyrephlie++ wrote:
testiculese = mobius'd by diedel

lol

"mobius'd" - gotta remember that.

Rook wrote:
wtf does that post mean?

That to understand is not given to everybody ... Rolling Eyes
Behemoth
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:50 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

For one to complain about mouselook they would also have to complain about the orb feature,Since you can do a 180 instantly, In my opinion they are both options and who can hate having more options?

So if you do not want to use it then dont, but dont bash diedel JUST because you dont think others should. (otherwise we might all be using joystick)
Rook
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:14 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

I think everyone should play on a level playing field not have some people with instant turn ability that no one else has. Am I the only one here with a sense of fair pay? Descent was designed with a MAX turn speed, I think EVERYONE should be held to that speed. If that seems unreasonable then yes I am unresonable.
Has this culture of exploits and cheats reached everyone. Some here I guess know no other way. I was born before that shit, in a place where fair play was prized above "winning" at any cost. If you can even consider winning unfairly winning.
The same people that like this exploit are prolly the same people that played for years with 56k settings while being on broadband. Well have fun using exploits fellas. You'll get no respect from me. How about you learn to win within the rules of the game, then you will have earnt some respect.[/rant]

I dont think I have bashed Diedel, I just said mouselook sux ass in Descent and I stand by that.


ps the orb sux ass too.

_________________
"I too, am exercising restraint... !".-- Stresstest
Behemoth
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:29 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Understand rook, that i meant that d2 has the feature to use the orb, it always has HOWEVER it is an OPTION meaning most people do not play with this (just like i am completely sure most good mousers would still choose regular mouse over mouselook anyday) options are not bad things just like if you see a rotten apple or a good apple you choose the nice looking apple, the choice that suits you best it doesnt mean EVERYONE has a use for it but at least it is there just like the rotten apple can be used for compost.

To note that i use regular flight sim mouse control (i even have the mouse control set like that in quake 3) i am just more used to it, testi dont you agree that most mousers like this way better?
Testiculese
Insane!




PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:37 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Flight-sim mouse is by far the best. I tried mouselook once when I first got D3, and it was awful. I dragged the mouse 4-5 inches and did 15 360's. No way anyone can play like that.

Apparently, everyone else thinks that way too 'cause I've never seen it used in a game.

_________________
There are four boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order.
Diedel
Rookie




PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:18 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Rook,

You can turn mouselook off and it is server controlled, so you can always provide a level playing field for all participants of your game.

Btw, it is also level if all participants use D2X-XL and decide to allow it.

I can't understand how you can keep insisting on this being an exploit, giving an unfair advantage to some users.

YOU CAN COMPLETELY TURN IT *O*F*F*, GOT IT NOW?!?!?!

Or is that too hard to understand a concept for you? Evil or Very Mad

Now stop it already. You don't have a point here.

I am starting to question your intelligence, or your motives.
Rook
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:11 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Diedel wrote:
I am starting to question your intelligence, or your motives.


now your just being a wanker. I fully understand that you can turn it off. which also means you can turn it ON. the fact remains the same if it is on you have an ability which others do not.

I will try and make it a littlle clearer for you.
NO ONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO TURN INSTANTLY ANYWHERE ANYTIME. GOT IT NOW???

if you want to change descent at its core go ahead have fun, use whatever crutch you need to overcome your inability to fly well.
hey, I know, peeps kill you because they can see you. maybe you should make a version where you and only you are invisible. that will help you too. please just make its possible to turn that "feature" off too so the rest of us can play in an even game.

_________________
"I too, am exercising restraint... !".-- Stresstest
Diedel
Rookie




PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:53 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

As the server controls that feature, you can at any time safely disable this feature for all game participants. So where is the unfair advantage?

But your point is not about whether someone has an unfair advantage or not. You are just venting your steaming aggression and prejudice.

You cannot even read properly: I don't need this feature to play better than others. I don't play Descent against others. I didn't play multiplayer Descent for a year or more.

Now do us a favor, get over it and stop your whining about mouselook.

Smile
Behemoth
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:02 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

No arguing on this subject people, please it is a game meant to have *fun* NOT encourage arguements, dissentions and other maliciousness, the usefullness of this thread has gone to bunk.
Rook
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:22 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

and no, my point is STILL that mouselook does not belong in descent.

if it is ON some peeps have an unfair advantage.

So we are agreed, the best feature of this "feature" is that you can turn it off.

_________________
"I too, am exercising restraint... !".-- Stresstest
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