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   Descent BB Forum Index > 6DoF Game Development > Omega Wing Zero - Mechanics Post new topic   Reply to topic
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Zanboo
Orion Wing




PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:15 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

One of the things we're thinking about is a positional shield system, much like Freelancer and Freespace. You would have four "hit zones" on your shields:
Front, Rear, Left, and Right.
And then your ship would have a Hull Health of 100%
Your shields would recharge after 15-20 seconds of no combat.

So, for example, I come up behind you and start launching missiles and lasers into your Rear shields, they will begin to deteriorate until they reach 0%, at which point your Hull Health will be vulnerable, doing real damage. Of course, even after your shields regen, your Hull Health would still be at the same level.
Anyways, if I do a strong rear attack, you'll want to make sure to turn 180 degrees and keep me away from that shield opening, because during combat, your shields do not regen.

I understand this is a step away from Descent, but you have to understand that with the hit detection and network code of Source, where you shoot is where you're going to hit, so instead of battles being around 10 seconds, you actually throw in some strategy and some longetivity to the fights. The closest thing I can compare it to is the Halo shield idea.

I want your thoughts/suggestions/ideas on this, the team feels like it's a good idea.

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Zanboo
Orion Wing




PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:41 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Also, we're thinking of using the Rail Gun (Mass Driver/Quantum Tunneling Gun) as a two shot kill. One kill would disable the section of shield you hit and the second would be a kill shot, essentially "sniping" the pilot out. Of course, our Rail Gun system would have a full zoom ala a sniper rifle.

We're also thinking of dropping the Fire-based weaponry (the Napalm Rocket and Cannon) and replacing the Napalm Rocket with the EMP Rocket, which would temporarily disable the full shielding system. (Around 5 seconds) this would allow an opening for a homing missile, or a rail shot, or whatever else you would happen to be carrying.

Another cool scenario, is in a chase, rail the rear shields, fire a homing missile (or two) and break off.

Also, what about Kudos, like Double Kills, Multi Kills, No Look Kills, etc.?
Rook
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:53 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Zanboo wrote:
Also, we're thinking of using the Rail Gun (Mass Driver/Quantum Tunneling Gun) as a two shot kill. One kill would disable the section of shield you hit and the second would be a kill shot, essentially "sniping" the pilot out. Of course, our Rail Gun system would have a full zoom ala a sniper rifle.

I would prefer to see NO 1 shot kills of any kind. Less ganking more dog fighting. The current "rail gun" is a 3 shot kill with a long reload time. Its main bonus is the fact it knocks you silly when it hits making subsequent shots easier as the target is incapacitated while he gets his bearings. Will yours have this mass impact effect or no? I would like to see the effect lessened myself as the Mass Driver has become the over powerful gun in D3.

Zanboo wrote:
We're also thinking of dropping the Fire-based weaponry (the Napalm Rocket and Cannon) and replacing the Napalm Rocket with the EMP Rocket, which would temporarily disable the full shielding system. (Around 5 seconds) this would allow an opening for a homing missile, or a rail shot, or whatever else you would happen to be carrying.

I like the way you are thinking of cool multi-weapon combos but Im getting a lil afraid that it is becoming a bit too "freespace".

Zanboo wrote:
Also, what about Kudos, like Double Kills, Multi Kills, No Look Kills, etc.?

If you mean the "DOUBLE KILL!" announcements, NO thankyou, unless I can turn em off. Before discovering how to turn that off in CSS I would just leave the server.
Rook
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:56 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

On the shield rechrge thing 15-20 seconds in D3 is a lifetime. In the popular D3 levels you are unable to rest for more than 4 or 5 seconds at most before coming face to face with someone else.
Does this mean that "shield orbs" will not exist in your game?

Would it be possible to add top and bottom shields? I think the idea of the Magnum for instance having a weak under belly or something to add another characteristic to a ship. Could be used to even out ship differences perhaps.

While Im on the Magnum, one of its failings in my opinion is that over a short distance say 1 hit sphere it is in fact the fastest ship, stupid but true. Please try to make sure taht stuff like this doesnt happen.

That brings up hit spheres. Will your game include them or not? The net code is infinately better in HL2 they are prolly not needed, no?
Zanboo
Orion Wing




PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:33 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

You would have a full bounding box, but if we go with the shield idea, it would be positional, then the hull would be vulnerable, i.e. your shots would HAVE TO hit the hull, if you shoot under or over the wing, you miss.

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JBOMB
DBB Cadet




PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:37 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

lol at "No Look Kill" in that deep quake voice....that would make me laugh..i say add em...in fact...need some voice over work?

Very Happy
JBOMB
DBB Cadet




PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:40 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Actually...though my voice is capable....what would be even sweeter is a soft womans voice..as if it was your on board computer that was telling you your kill kudos...

i mean...what nerd doesnt wanna hear a sexy woman tell him he just "did good"....you know nerds....they love that sht...
Zanboo
Orion Wing




PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:53 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

I'm 100% for that if you'd like... add some reverb and chorus.

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Zanboo
Orion Wing




PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:06 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Rook wrote:

I would prefer to see NO 1 shot kills of any kind. Less ganking more dog fighting. The current "rail gun" is a 3 shot kill with a long reload time. Its main bonus is the fact it knocks you silly when it hits making subsequent shots easier as the target is incapacitated while he gets his bearings. Will yours have this mass impact effect or no? I would like to see the effect lessened myself as the Mass Driver has become the over powerful gun in D3.


Yeah, we're working on balancing out the Mass Driver, we're thinking more weaponry that is good for shield busting and weapons that are good for hull destruction. Also, more or less a straight shot rail fire, instead of the "shake" effect of the MD, so you're able to counter-snipe.

Also, combo kills are more or less something that would occur naturally, we don't have to announce them... hell, you got combo kills all the time in D3. I also don't want any insanely overpowered missiles, because from playing I've noticed that the Mega is just too easy to get kills with. And D3 is spammy, i want to sorta calm that down.

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Rook
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:54 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Zanboo wrote:
D3 is spammy, i want to sorta calm that down.


SWEET!
Zanboo
Orion Wing




PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:28 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

is that a smartass SWEET? Twisted Evil

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Rook
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:36 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

hehe, no thats a "thank god" SWEET. my favorite way to play D3 is blue lasers and conc missiles only, not chuck as much shit randomly into a room as possible and hopefully kill someone.
Zanboo
Orion Wing




PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 9:34 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

I want it to be more like Quake 3 in weapons feel. Rewarding accuracy and skill over spam.

I'm just drawing from a lot of sources to make it feel the best I can. I love the "feel" of the ship control in Descent 3, and that's one thing you'll see in Omega Wing, but the weaponry I feel just needs a rework.

Also, I just got back from playing a game of D3 and it was nothing but missile spam, take away the lock and those people would be screwed.

To be honest, I don't think a lot of the community will like the changes to the weaponry. Most missiles will have to be properly lead, the only missile with a lock will be the homing missile and those will not be in abundance... etc.

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Pun
DBB Admin




PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:21 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Zanboo wrote:
I love the "feel" of the ship control in Descent 3, and that's one thing you'll see in Omega Wing


You are on the right track, my friend!
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:22 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Zanboo wrote:
Also, I just got back from playing a game of D3 and it was nothing but missile spam, take away the lock and those people would be screwed.

Well, that's only true for Stadium, Skybox, Abend or (esp.) Subway Dancer -- these levels are primarily played by newbs since they can easily score in them Smile Of the levels that are up try VV, Anotherbox, Halcyon, Skin Like Winter, Vamped, or the Fury series for a more skill sided experience.
Zanboo
Orion Wing




PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:35 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Ah, yeah, I love VV, and the CTF experience is fun. I don't agree 100% with the map design, as i feel the flag room is a bit too easily defendable, but i'm an old UT instagib CTF player, so i'm used to quick flag runs

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TheCope
SPANG!




PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:35 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Zanboo wrote:
Also, I just got back from playing a game of D3 and it was nothing but missile spam, take away the lock and those people would be screwed.


My vauss did lock perty well didn't it?
;)
Zanboo
Orion Wing




PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:40 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Yeah, in the beauty that is D3 netcode.

Come find me in Counter-Strike sometime.

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TheCope
SPANG!




PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:44 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

i'm just kiddin'... yeessshh!
Zanboo
Orion Wing




PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:48 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

so was i

here, i'll fix it
Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Cool Cool Cool Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

[edit] i love you cope

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WorldWarWoodi
Hotshot




PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:46 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Just a word here, if you make the game too hard to learn quickly you might not attract enough fresh players.
Im thinking of how many people I have introduced to descent just to hear them say it is too hard to learn and "I just get totally owned in multi over an over."
I think it is an aquired skill defenitly to dog fight without locking secondaries, perhaps you could have ramping skill levels where the higher you go the less locking weapons your ship can hold or the choice of secondaries becomes more limited.

Myself, I like the secondaries, all of them because it takes skill to dodge them too. I love dodging a mega just to unload one in return in a tight tunnel.
Even in a level like subway dancer you can dodge or escape nearly all of those super modded secondaries if you learn how.
I absolutly would hate to see napalm type weapons gone, there use in descent is strategic in many levels. I/E In a tight ctf game with awesome defense the only way you might escape with the flag and low shields is to nape your pursuers giving you a little time to get away.

I think you just limit the possibilities of some exciting gameplay without the secondaries being in.

WWW
Zanboo
Orion Wing




PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:48 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

But with the additions we're adding possibilities are increased. We're removing certain secondaries but adding new ones.

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Neo
[deleted]




PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:27 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Zanboo wrote:
I'm just drawing from a lot of sources to make it feel the best I can. I love the "feel" of the ship control in Descent 3, and that's one thing you'll see in Omega Wing, but the weaponry I feel just needs a rework.


I just hope I can slide fast enough this time... =\

Of course the weaponry needs a rework! Razz I'm glad there will be no overpowered missiles. I always find myself complaining about "missile nooobs" =) And it's just silly being able to just point the nose of my ship at a noob and just click once and blow him up with a Mega Missile. LOL

And what the heck is a "no-look kill?" How can one kill someone without looking at the target? =P
roid
Inane!




PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:18 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

if you shoot some Barnys down a hallway, and someone comes out from behind a wall and runs straight into them.
AusRED5
Hotshot




PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:29 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

roid wrote:
if you shoot some Barnys down a hallway, and someone comes out from behind a wall and runs straight into them.

Roid is right.

In some lvls I play in. I watch how ppl fly and the paths they take offten. If you know it well....When flying past the hall. All you have to do is let that smart/mega or whatever missle loose down that path. If the timing is right. You'll get them without even looking.
So that would be your "No-look kill". Wink
Pun
DBB Admin




PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:27 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

The Aussies are well known for that. Razz
Zanboo
Orion Wing




PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:34 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

We're thinking of your no-look kill as hammering someone's shields to nothing, firing a homing missile and turning away because you know you're guaranteed a kill.

The idea of Progessive and Regenerative Shielding is gonna really change the dynamics of the fight. You'll be able to "see" when you've broken through the shields through an effect of it dispersing, as well as see pinpoint damage on the hull itself.

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Rook
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:00 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

AusRED5 wrote:
roid wrote:
if you shoot some Barnys down a hallway, and someone comes out from behind a wall and runs straight into them.

Roid is right.

In some lvls I play in. I watch how ppl fly and the paths they take offten. If you know it well....When flying past the hall. All you have to do is let that smart/mega or whatever missle loose down that path. If the timing is right. You'll get them without even looking.
So that would be your "No-look kill". Wink


chuck and duck!
AusRED5
Hotshot




PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:50 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Pun wrote:
The Aussies are well known for that. Razz

Ahhhhh but I am no real aussie. I'm a born Texan living in the land down under! Wink
Zanboo
Orion Wing




PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:28 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message



A gift from our closed dev forum Cool

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Iceman
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:46 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Zanboo wrote:
We're also thinking of dropping the Fire-based weaponry (the Napalm Rocket and Cannon) and replacing the Napalm Rocket with the EMP Rocket, ...

I would hate to see the napalm rocket go. It is one of the most fun weapons of D3. In fact we have a saying for it ... "Napalm, the gift that keeps on giving". Toss one of these on someone and they sit there and burn ... knowing that they are gonna die and being powerless to do anything about it. Its a lot of fun.

Another fact in favor of the napalm rocket (and frag missile for that matter) is that it is unguided and extremely fast. Both of these missiles encourage good aiming skills almost as much as a direct fire weapon such as the vauss or mass driver. For the new player they can be somewhat intimidating because they require accuracy but once they are mastered they are well worth the effort you put into learning them.


As far as the napalm cannon ... its worthless, ditch it.
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:56 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Zanboo wrote:
We're thinking of your no-look kill as hammering someone's shields to nothing, firing a homing missile and turning away because you know you're guaranteed a kill.


Well, only happens w/ newbs. You won't be able to place a homer on a skilled player w/ the guarantee tag -- assume the hit, turn away and you are dead. Smile

Also, I agree w/ Iceman -- keep the nap missile.
Iceman
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:02 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Very true ... given a little room for movement and a little distance between ships, an experienced player will find dodging a homer (at least wiht the D3 physics) quite simple. Having homers in the game encourages the noobs to learn dodging skills.

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Zanboo
Orion Wing




PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:40 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Homing missiles will still be available, they will be a LOT stronger though, the only way to "lose" one is either perform a manuever to lose it (not a simple slide) or taking a 90 turn, as that will be pretty much the only thing it can't do.

Which is why the pros will get good at dodging them, and the noobs will have the EMP countermeasure system...

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Pun
DBB Admin




PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:12 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Will the weap loadout be controllable on the server side?
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