Descent BB

 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

   Descent BB Forum Index > Hobby Lobby > Keyboards Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:00 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Thought I started a log about this, someone may be interested Smile

If you were paying attention in the Tech Forum you may have seen this:

Grendel wrote:
KB: Deck Legend Frost
(prev. Ducky Shine 3, Corsair K70, XArmor U9BL-S, [s]Logitech 710+[/s], Deck Legend Fire, Deck 82 Ice. How hard can it be to find a good keyboard ???
Very, apparently. Fuck it, making my own. Let me know if you are interested in a 2nd hand mech. KB... Using a personalized CM Storm Quickfire XT w/ MX Green @ work -- very nice actually. Light Saver Kit on order Very Happy)

I also have dibs on two PCB's in a group buy for a 60% and a full keyboard. My plan is to take over the micro controllers of these boards and tailor the firmware to my needs. I did start working on the firmware, but I do need something to test it with, so I built my first prototype -- behold the 1% keyboard:



Mr. Green

I also was able to slip in a pre-order for this Mechanical Key Switch Demo Board from Cooler Master (isn't it cute ?) So my 2nd prototype will most likely be a 6% keyboard with full backlights. Cool

I'll keep posting any substantial progress here.

_________________
Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:02 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

The 1% lives ! Soon it will do more than just acting as a NUM Lock key and its LED, Muahahah !! Twisted Evil

Fun stuff. Well, for me anyways Razz

[anchor]


_________________
Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:38 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

LED's came in ! Mr. Green


_________________
Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:58 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Finally got the tester, now I'm stuck at home for another day due to snow Sad At least I think I figured out where to put the Teensy board:



Should be able to do some soldering before the weekend.

_________________
Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
Flip
Ace




PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:45 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

I'm interested as soon as you decide to do some form of a footswitch Wink

Edit: I'd love to at least have a PTT and proximity button at my feet, but I can imagine weapon switches too.
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:19 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

That would be really easy to do; In fact it would be so easy that you can do it by yourself ! Razz Just get a Teensy 2.0 board and wire some switches to it. I'll send you the source code for the keyboard firmware, you just adapt the usage table to the keys you want to send.


_________________
Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
Flip
Ace




PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:34 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Deal! Smile
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:22 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Here is the source: click.

To compile, get and install WinAVR-20100110 and AVR Studio 4.19. Then extract the archive and double click on the *.aps file. W/in AVRS select Build ->Build to rebuild Keyboard.hex. Use the Teensy loader to load the new firmware. Voila.

You only need to look at kb.c, at the beginning there's a map of the current I/O pins being used. The keys are mapped in build_kbd_report(), the table is defined at the beginning of the routine containing U_... values. All possible U_... defines can be found in kbusages.h.

Or, you can buy the Stinky Board Razz

_________________
Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:22 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Almost done Mr. Green


_________________
Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
Flip
Ace




PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:10 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Thanks man, exactly what I was hoping for! I have a old sidewinder gamepad that would do the trick but this sounds like more fun Smile Hehe, havn't seen the stinkyboard yet, it looks interesting though. I kinda want to configure the switches using my foot as the center and that almost comes close.

EDIT: Hehe, now I know why you put resistors on those switches.
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:22 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Better caps:


_________________
Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
Ferno
BDSM Fanatic




PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:13 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

man, those look slick. Looking forward to larger pads.
Pun
DBB Admin




PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:19 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Whoa, now you have my attention. But what do you plan to do with that thing?
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:12 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Right now I'm just using it for firmware development. After that, not sure... As it is, the skull key is PTT for vent (Ctrl IIRC), FN is num-lock. W/ NL on the WASD keys are actually WASD, w/ it off they are arrow keys. Can be changed to whatever I need very easily tho Smile I'm thinking of making a small PCB that would make converting the dummy's into a micro keyboard a breeze, haven't found the right layout software for it yet tho. :/

I got one of these kits on order and I'm collecting pieces for a 60% board (PCB ordered, waiting for case to go on sale.) Going to customize these very heavily in terms of layout, the firmware experience will help w/ that.

_________________
Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:50 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Grendel wrote:
Here is the source: click.

To compile, get and install WinAVR-20100110 and AVR Studio 4.19. Then extract the archive and double click on the *.aps file. W/in AVRS select Build ->Build to rebuild Keyboard.hex. Use the Teensy loader to load the new firmware. Voila.

You only need to look at kb.c, at the beginning there's a map of the current I/O pins being used. The keys are mapped in build_kbd_report(), the table is defined at the beginning of the routine containing U_... values. All possible U_... defines can be found in kbusages.h.


Latest source.

Now w/ the case in place:


_________________
Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:54 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Anybody in need of a KB w/ up to three switches or the urge to learn about hardware -- check this out. Switches are available here, LED's here.

I have one on order and the firmware ported over Smile

_________________
Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
Flip
Ace




PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:16 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

I interested in how this and the converter for the ffb will come along. I want to see how I can integrate them into a flight sim. Probably cheaper to use servo's, I guess, but I'm not sure how to get FFB then.
Flip
Ace




PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:21 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

What I really need is a motor that has a ball on the end of a shaft that will rotate and move in and out. I'm thinking carnival rides but maybe you know of something else?
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:30 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Sorry, have to defer you to this thread for FFB questions. I try to stay out of it since it's a major time-sink Wink

_________________
Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:46 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Grendel wrote:
Anybody in need of a KB w/ up to three switches or the urge to learn about hardware -- check this out. Switches are available here, LED's here.

I have one on order and the firmware ported over Smile

All set & done Smile



Nice little toy for someone who needs up to three keys outside a regular keyboard. Firmware is on drive.google.com under /file/d/0ByFalc_WhYosX3FJd3JPNDY0VGM/edit?usp=sharing

To load the hex file, you'll need Atmel's FLIP (and Java if you don't have it installed.) To activate the DFU boot-loader on the Keycard, briefly short the two pads next to the USB mini connector (right above the robots head) with something metallic (wire, screwdriver etc.) while the card is connected to the computer.

For more details on FLIP please check the help file that comes w/ it.

To edit and compile the code you need AVR Studio 4.19 (AVRS) and avr-gcc 4.7.0 + avr-libc 1.8. Install AVRS and extract the avrgcc archive into C:\Tools. Extract the KeyCard archive, then double-click KeyCard.aps -- this will start AVRS and load the KeyCard project. Select "Build" --> "Build" to rebuild KeyCard.hex.

Right now the keys are mapped to the three lock keys NUM, CAPS, SCR (left-to-right.) The LED's are mapped to the respective functions.

If the NUM- and SCR-lock LED are on together for 5s, control is passed to the DFU boot-loader (no need for shorting the pads anymore Smile.) If no lock LED is active, the LED's start a demo display after 5s.

The key-bindings are defined in build_kbd_report() (in kb.c). All possible U_... defines can be found in kbusages.h.

Edit: new version w/ changed binding: Key-mapping for SCR lock off is: Vol-, Mute, Vol+; for SCR lock on: PrevTrack, Pause, NextTrack.


_________________
Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:53 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Firmware update for the KeyCard -- drive.google.com, under /file/d/0ByFalc_WhYosRGk1dzRxNDVLdTA/edit?usp=sharing -- now w/ macros.

The LED's reflect the NUM, CAPS, and SCR lock LED's of a keyboard. If no lock LED is on, the card will start a little demo display after 5s. The NUM and SCR lock LED status is used to select different layers/functions:
  • NUM and SCR off: keys behave like the original firmware, ie. output www, mail, and fb links
  • NUM on: keys are mapped to (l2r) : Vol-, Mute, Vol+
  • SCR on: keys are mapped to (l2r): Prev. Track, Play/Pause, Next Track
  • NUM and SCR on: bootloader will be started after 5s
  • if the CAPS LED is on the keys will behave like the original firmware, regardless of the state of the other two LED's

The key mapping can be found in build_kbd_report(), the macros in play_macro(). Notes on the macros:
  • a macro is a list of usages (not characters), see kbusages.h
  • each entry in the macro will create a report containing that entry, except
  • modifiers. Each modifier will be applied to the next non-modifier entry, eg. use U_LftShift, U_3 to echo #, U_LftGui, U_L to lock the computer, and U_LftCtrl, U_LftAlt, U_Del to issue Ctrl+Alt+Del
  • to echo multiple identical usages, seperate them w/ U_None, eg. www as U_W, U_None, U_W, U_None, U_W
  • the last entry of a macro must be U_None
  • no System Control or Consumer Control usages are supported (should be easy to add if necessary)

_________________
Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:37 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Things are ramping up a bit, got my LightSaver on Sat. Not sure when I'll get to it, probably going to work on a 40% board someone needs debugged 1st (will post a pic once I get my hands on that one.) Also I'm still waiting for the 60% PCB + plate, most interested in that one.

I did score a Scorpius 32 for $27 -- had some spare time on Sat so I tore it completely apart and rebuilt it:



(it does have a more proper set of caps by now Wink)

_________________
Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:26 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Grendel wrote:
[..], probably going to work on a 40% board someone needs debugged 1st (will post a pic once I get my hands on that one.)

Forgot how much I hate soldering SMD parts...




Debugged it, waiting for a caps set now Smile

_________________
Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:33 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

My current setup, a CM Storm QFR green w/ a Frosty Flake:



(Needed an anchor for the pic Smile)

_________________
Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
roid
Inane!




PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:41 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

<havn't read your code>

I'm learning about this stuff, here's my ideas for it, what do you think (i'm learning and appreciate feedback on what i'm getting so so wrong.)

Reckon the cheapest option would be:
  • a cheap-ass little ATmega board. 5x for $13.48 ship incl (that's $2.70 each).
  • $1 USB TTL.
  • Shift registers if your keyboard has more than 20x keys. From 5x for $1.28 ($0.256 each) to 100x for $11.59 ($0.1159 each) and everywhere inbetween*.
    - or you can just use more of those $2.70 ATmega boards instead (since you got 5x), serially chained together via I2C, hehe
  • Whatever to drive your leds, dunno how many you have, the MCU itself might be able to handle it without any help. If not, then maybe darlington arrays are the cheapest/simplest option for that? Man i dunno.
  • 3D print the housing or someshit i dunno.
    - Untested idea on how to get nice crisp text/art on the button surfaces: Make a copper or aluminium etch, put it onto a stick, heat it up and use as a branding iron to melt the design into the surface of your plastic button.
*prices mentioned in the post above are all in $USD, but what follows is in Australian dollars coz it's just a copy-paste from my notes, sorry:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/181265979862 5x for $1.38 ($0.276 each)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/171166118242 10x for $1.93 ($0.193 each)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/270934986388 20x for $3.56 ($0.178 each)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/261013427962 30x for $5.07 ($0.169 each)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/400686889521 50x for $7.02 ($0.1404 each)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251425820449 100x for $12.54 ($0.1254 each)


Grendel wrote:
Forgot how much I hate soldering SMD parts...


i've been getting a bit excited about DIY conductive glue recently, you just mix a bunch of graphite powder into glue, real easy to make.
Could be a useful solder-free option for making dead-bug electronics. But what i'm most excited about is stenciling it onto strips of tape, to make flexible cheap-ass circuitboads without using any copper - we all know how cheap roll-to-roll processes can be Smile! i might smear silicone over it afterwards to protect it. I'll likely be making the conductive glue itself outof silicone anyway, since this ensures it's flexible and won't crack.

You can even use this conductive glue to make:
- resistors (pretty obvious, just make the trace thin and/or long).
- capacitors (coat 2 sides of a piece of paper).
- springy variable resistors, ie: for touch sensitive skin/buttons (soak a kitchen sponge in it).
- primary batteries (add a layer of aluminum foil and salt water).

Some video recently made me a little spooked about the possability of peak-copper, so i'm seeing how feasible it is to avoid using it.
I'm excited coz not only is it indeed seeming pretty feasible, all of these cool extra advantages and neat tricks keep popping up too.

_________________
i'm here to ... uh,
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:10 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Will try to respond w/in a few days, just dropped $700 at the vet, facing another $400 tomorrow. Fuck.

[anchor]


_________________
Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
roid
Inane!




PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:28 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Did some initial experiments using sodium hydroxide (ie: drain cleaner) to etch aluminium foil (with a tape backing stuck on). To use as flexible PCBs.

- None of the pen inks i used would protect the foil - the solution lifted the ink straight off in mere seconds, and the then-unprotected foil was completely dissolved in 20mins.
- Drawing on it with a wax candle didn't work so well, it has promise but definitely needs some tweaks to effectively protect the foil.
- Chapstick worked, seemed to protect the foil pretty well, but i did smear it on a lot thicker than the inks.
- Also the tape backing itself worked great, being plastic. Where i had folded the tape over on a corner, that aluminium survived perfectly.

The tape was still sticky under where the aluminium had been completely eaten away, so using tape as a reusable shield/stencil seems like an option.
I could maybe also mix the sodium hydoxide into a paste, which could be stenciled or extruded (via reprap) onto the foil. I'd end up using a lot more consumables as compared to the bath solution though.
Could also try spraying some paints onto it (through a stencil).

_________________
i'm here to ... uh,
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:33 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

roid wrote:
Reckon the cheapest option would be:

As a controller you really want one w/ a native USB module. I've seen Mega32u4 based boards (similar to Teensy) on eBay for $5 a pop. These would be the cheapest route (heck, in the US the chips alone in single quantities are more expensive !) As for line multiplexing -- most KB's do a 18x8 matrix (you step through the 18 line (pull to GND) and read 8 columns at a time.) Many ways to get to 18 rows, a popular variant is to run 5 lines into two BCD decoders (74HC42, eg. used here.) Simple & efficient, allows me to poll the whole matrix every 500us. I would not advise to use multiple MCU's, firmware wise it'll be a PITA (you would use SPI BTW, I2C is too slow.)

roid wrote:
  • Whatever to drive your leds, dunno how many you have, the MCU itself might be able to handle it without any help. If not, then maybe darlington arrays are the cheapest/simplest option for that? Man i dunno.

  • Ideally you would use TLC5940 chips, problem is that they are expensive as hell. If it's the normal 3 or 4 status LED's -- AVR chips can drive them from an I/O pin w/o problems (and if you use PWM capable pins you can do non-flickering brightness control.) If you have keys individually backlit you need to get creative (some fun stuff here). Usually by using shift registers and a fast SPI interface Smile

    roid wrote:
  • 3D print the housing or someshit i dunno.

  • Has been done Wink Other option include milling AL, layering (ie. cut acrylic, AL, steel plates and layer them forming a case), Lego, etc.

    roid wrote:
    - Untested idea on how to get nice crisp text/art on the button surfaces: Make a copper or aluminium etch, put it onto a stick, heat it up and use as a branding iron to melt the design into the surface of your plastic button. [size=10]

    Caps are currently made from three different materials (ABS, PBT, POM) and there are four methods for getting the legends on: doubleshot (mainly ABS, some DS PBT caps are made), dye sublimation printing (PBT, POM), laser etching (all), and pad printing followed by a UV cured clearcoat (all, most caps on cheap boards are done this way w/ ABS blanks.) All of these have pro's and con's, my favorites are DS (never wear out) and DSUB PBT (almost never wear out). People do experiment w/ their own ideas, but it's not very common since the caps are readily available (Signature Plastics (custom outlet), GMK etc.)

    roid wrote:
    Grendel wrote:
    Forgot how much I hate soldering SMD parts...


    i've been getting a bit excited about DIY conductive glue recently, you just mix a bunch of graphite powder into glue, real easy to make.

    Sounds like a fun project, problems are the reliability and longevity. Lead based solder on copper is well proven and recyclable Smile

    _________________
    Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
    Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
    roid
    Inane!




    PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:33 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

    Ah matricies. Yeah in hindsight i was starting to wonder why i hadn't pondered how keyboards are traditionally done. What a goose. Have a head full of stepper motor actuators atm, every problem looks like a nail when you spend weeks learning about hammers.
    Regarding the lack of an onboard USB module, is it really a problem? I know it's added complexity coz it's one more thing you need to buy & attach (and this extra labour time needs to be costed in). But as far as i can tell it still retains the exact same functionality as if it were all on one board - right?

    I've been concentrating on getting the max amount of I/O pins from small boards, and for I/O pins per $ the small ATMEGA328 boards seem to come out infront. For some reason small boards based on the ATMEGA32U4 (eg: Arduino Pro Micro) have fewer I/O pins than small ATMEGA328 boards do, i don't know why this is. Teensy 2.0 seems to buck this trend, but they're not as price competitive. Unfortunately I/O pins per $ rules my world atm, i'm only just starting to look at multiplexing stuff like shift registers, so in time my priorities may change.
    Perhaps making my own cheap boards with max I/O pins will become an option for me in the future, urgh speaking of PITA.

    Grendel wrote:
    Sounds like a fun project, problems are the reliability and longevity. Lead based solder on copper is well proven and recyclable Smile


    Yeah tell me about it.
    The automatic first thought for any new idea i have is: It probably only seems new because it was tried ages ago but worked out so terribly that no-one ever speaks of it again.
    Heh oh well, fail early fail often eh.

    _________________
    i'm here to ... uh,
    Grendel
    Ninja Admin




    PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:34 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

    roid wrote:
    Regarding the lack of an onboard USB module, is it really a problem? I know it's added complexity coz it's one more thing you need to buy & attach (and this extra labour time needs to be costed in). But as far as i can tell it still retains the exact same functionality as if it were all on one board - right?

    Yes, if you want USB connectivity not having a USB module on-chip will be a big problem (compared to the ease of having it right where you need it.) The only stand-alone USB chip I know is the ISP1582/1583. Notoriously hard to get since most MCU's come w/ on-chip modules... Your only other option w/ the AVR chips is software USB (V-USB), that works but only in low-speed (vs. full-speed w/ the modules) and it eats considerable amounts of CPU time.

    roid wrote:
    I've been concentrating on getting the max amount of I/O pins from small boards, and for I/O pins per $ the small ATMEGA328 boards seem to come out infront. For some reason small boards based on the ATMEGA32U4 (eg: Arduino Pro Micro) have fewer I/O pins than small ATMEGA328 boards do, i don't know why this is. Teensy 2.0 seems to buck this trend, but they're not as price competitive.

    All usable pins of the 32u4 are brought out on the Teensy 2.0, it is what it is Wink IIRC the Pro Micro boards actually have a few pins not brought out, OTOH those are the ones I saw for $5 shipped from china on eBay. If you need more pins look for AT90USB chips - 646, 647, 1286 (Teensy++ 2.0), 1287 (AT90USBKEY.) Ultimately though, any development board will cost you. Cheapest solution will be a custom PCB if you need quantities. pcbwing.com seems to be popular, and KiCAD is free Wink

    _________________
    Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
    Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
    roid
    Inane!




    PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:33 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

    Grendel wrote:
    ...Your only other option w/ the AVR chips is software USB (V-USB), that works but only in low-speed (vs. full-speed w/ the modules) and it eats considerable amounts of CPU time...


    Probably fine for most applications, how fast does a keyboard possibly need to be?

    (Offtopic: I think it'd be enough for my robot tentacle needs too, where the arduino board (atmega328) is just a controller for upto 32x servos/steppers, and listening to movement commands via (external) USB from a host-mode smartphone. It doesn't need to do much else other than Step/PWM timing and USB. Even all the kinematics calculations can be done elsewhere if need be.
    But yeah, Watch-this-space to witness my hilarious incomming realty-check when my parts arrive from china)

    _________________
    i'm here to ... uh,
    Grendel
    Ninja Admin




    PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:54 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

    roid wrote:
    Probably fine for most applications, how fast does a keyboard possibly need to be?


    Faster than you think ;P A good ANSI keyboard will keep track of the status of 104 switches w/o loosing any brief actuations or chattering. In order to archive this you have to poll the switch matrix at least about every millisecond. My firmware does this every 500us, ie. every 8000 CPU cycles.

    In a nutshell, one loop run does:

    • check for USB suspend
    • maintain PWM for the LED's (if not timer based)
    • maintain USB idle logic
    • maintain LED statuses
    • read the matrix:

      • for each row, read the column
      • for each key in a column, check if it's status changed and debouncing is done
      • if a key is determined "up" or "down" after a debounce, figure out what to do w/ it and do it (this is more complex than this reads and needs to be done for every key that changed state)

    • send USB reports if any are due

    I can get you a copy of the source if you like, I'd guess it's good learning material if you are interested in programming AVR micro controllers Wink And no, it's not Arduino. That stuff is what BASIC was for programming languages -- bad news for anyone trying to be serious about the topic..

    roid wrote:
    (Offtopic: I think it'd be enough for my robot tentacle needs too, where the arduino board (atmega328) is just a controller for upto 32x servos/steppers, and listening to movement commands via (external) USB from a host-mode smartphone. It doesn't need to do much else other than Step/PWM timing and USB. Even all the kinematics calculations can be done elsewhere if need be.
    But yeah, Watch-this-space to witness my hilarious incomming realty-check when my parts arrive from china)

    Looking forward to it Very Happy

    _________________
    Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
    Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
    Grendel
    Ninja Admin




    PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:28 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

    Bit the bullet and ordered a new soldering station -- a BK3000LF. I did the SmallFry board above w/ one and really recommend it, excellent price/performance ratio. It comes w/ a blunt tip that works fine for through-hole stuff, I added three tips for SMD work: 0.2mm conical, 1mm chisel, 2mm flow type -- should cover most scenarios.

    _________________
    Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
    Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
    Grendel
    Ninja Admin




    PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 12:50 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

    Got the station today, tested it by de-soldering the switches from a CM Storm Quickfire Rapid and soldering new ones in. Smile


    _________________
    Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
    Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
    Grendel
    Ninja Admin




    PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 10:15 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

    Meet the Rosewill RK-9000. It's one of the cheapest ANSI 104 keyboards w/ Cherry MX switches while still made by a respected OEM, Costar (maker of Filco, some CM Storm Quickfire, and WASD boards among others.) The most interesting feature of these Costar boards is that their controller sits on its own small removable board inside the keyboard and a guy in Sweden came up w/ a bunch of replacements, including one for the RK-9000 !

    The reliability record for cheaper Costar boards is a bit lacking, common problems are switches starting to chatter or being intermittent and mini USB connectors coming loose. This can directly be linked to the boards being RoHS compliant and single-sided -- lead-free solder doesn't flow very well and is brittle. In almost 100% these problems can be fixed by re-soldering the affected joints (and if you use leaded solder they should be fixed for good Smile.) Another problem w/ the RK-9000 is the very limited choice of MX switch types.

    Now let's put everything together and make a custom board:

    - RK-9000BL, $75
    - The Black Petal, $35
    - 110 Cherry MX White switches, $54
    - Sideprinted PBT Keycaps, $51

    The RK-9000:





    Desoldering the black switches:



    Soldering in new switches:



    Putting it back together:



    Waiting for The Black Petal now.. Smile

    _________________
    Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
    Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
    Goto page 1, 2  Next
    View previous topic :: View next topic  
    All times are GMT - 6 Hours
    Post new topic   Reply to topic
    Jump to:  
       Descent BB Forum Index > Hobby Lobby > Keyboards

     
    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot vote in polls in this forum


    Image hosting by postimage.org Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group