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   Descent BB Forum Index > Ethics and Commentary > Is verbally abusing people just for going off topic ethical? Post new topic   Reply to topic
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Neo
[deleted]




PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:35 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

I would say absolutely not. The policy here seems to be that if you make 3 off-topic replies, that means you deserve to be abused and treated like a child and admins will encourage and enforce this abuse.

I think a better option would be to delete off-topic replies or split the thread and give a tactful warning. I got neither of these things. Instead, I got cursed at and I got called a retard, my friends were insulted, underestimated, and discredited (again), and I was verbally abused even more in chat. Even though my replies were off-topic, they weren't even understood anyway.
Bunyip
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:14 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Actually, your free speech is allowed in the form of off topic replies.

Theirs is allowed in the form of castigation of your off topic replies.

Balance is thus maintained.

In other words, if you can't take the heat, stay out of the fire. Wink

_________________
BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it, or who has said it,
not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense. - GAUTAMA BUDDHA
Krom
DBB Admin




PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:04 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Yeah, the way to avoid getting insulted for shitposting is obviously to not shitpost.

_________________
(19:11) [D3k]Gooberman: pffft, I didnt get owned baal, you just got 60 lucky fusion shots
Bunyip
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:02 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

It it really that easy Krom? Really? There's got to be a catch somewhere Wink

_________________
BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it, or who has said it,
not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense. - GAUTAMA BUDDHA
Ferno
BDSM Fanatic




PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:34 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

neo, if you don't like it, it's pretty easy to handle. All you have to do is...

grow a sack.
Bunyip
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:29 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

As Ferno can attest, even a tiny little itty bitty one will do the trick!

_________________
BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it, or who has said it,
not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense. - GAUTAMA BUDDHA
Neo
[deleted]




PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:50 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

The catch is that Krom doesn't understand what I'm talking about or why, so he calls it crap. He's also hypocritical. The real reason he muted me on the other forum is because he didn't like what I was saying about a particular subject. If you go back and read it, you'll see what I mean.

It's the classic example of admins hiding their stupidity under the mask of "enforcing rules"
Neo
[deleted]




PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:51 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Funny how people can have a big "sack," a high brow, and a weak mind.

Ferno wrote:
neo, if you don't like it, it's pretty easy to handle. All you have to do is...

grow a sack.


If I couldn't handle it I wouldn't jump out of the frying pan and into the fire. Razz eat a penis.
Neo
[deleted]




PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:55 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

And now to respond to the only relevant reply. Sort of.

Bunyip wrote:
Actually, your free speech is allowed in the form of off topic replies.

Theirs is allowed in the form of castigation of your off topic replies.

Balance is thus maintained.

In other words, if you can't take the heat, stay out of the fire. Wink


You didn't answer my question. The question was is it ethical. I didn't ask about "balance."
Ferno
BDSM Fanatic




PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:49 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

well, you're the one who's fuckin whining about being picked on in a bb full of pricks. Smile

'wah it's so unethical, my mangina's full of sand, wah'
Pun
DBB Admin




PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:46 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

When we started .com, our aim was to take a hands off approach to the threads, and only moderate when absolutely necessary. Our main motivation for creating this site was to give our descent friends a place to have conversations without being forced into conforming to a site owner's or moderator's personal moral or ethical guidelines. For the most part, it's worked well. If you come here and act like an idiot, you'll be moderated by your peers. I agree that there are flaws, but I think Bunyip has it right. Make meaningful, relevant posts and you'll be fine. Derail the thread and you'll get your ass handed to you.

I know I'm sort of non-answering here. But, I guess the best reply I can offer is that the question of ethics really doesn't apply here, since our plan from the beginning was to keep our own personal beliefs out of the mix.
Bunyip
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:48 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Pun wrote:
I know I'm sort of non-answering here. But, I guess the best reply I can offer is that the question of ethics really doesn't apply here...


Actually what you described is more of an "ethos", that is, the fundamental character or underlying spirit we've tried to maintain - which is what determines the ethics of our group here. Thus ethics are relevant, and yes, under our ethos, it IS ethical to give someone shit for shitposting, as Krom so eloquently puts it. In fact, that applies to much of 'net culture. And remember, one man's relevance may well be another's shitposting... A thick skin and honesty with oneself are the easiest way to navigate that particular shoal. Well, that and some rudimentary understanding of social skills, even if you lack the actual skills.

Unfortunately in any community there are those who revel in posting completely disconnected drivel in order to get a rise out of people. There are others who have things to say that are only coherent and/or relevant to themselves, which they choose not to keep to themselves, and still others who think they're being relevant but the way they express themselves it looks like nonsense. Sadly it's almost impossible to tell the last two from the first one, so they all look like trolls. Neo, I'm of the opinion that much of your posting falls in to the second and third category - except when you feel like getting in a dig of your own, and your own words seem to confirm that...

Neo wrote:
Even though my replies were off-topic, they weren't even understood anyway.

_________________
BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it, or who has said it,
not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense. - GAUTAMA BUDDHA
Neo
[deleted]




PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:51 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

If that's the case then ethics is relative. I can be a psychopath and say stabbing little children in the face is ethical.

Yes, you're definitely non-answering. You could have deleted those posts and warned me privately, instead you chose to rant in chat and here on the boards. Apparently your personal beliefs are still involved (since it's impossible not to be) because you attack people you deem as inferior.

and Ferno, I posted this to start a discussion about the ethics of stabbing people, not to whine about random pricks (same reason anyone posts things); also, you post a lot of nonsense too elsewhere, but nobody rants at you because of your Mod badge and your "who's who" citizenship status. Razz When I call you out on it, you ninja my posts and sweep it under the rug. Sounds like someone I used to know.
Bunyip
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:27 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Neo wrote:
If that's the case then ethics is relative. I can be a psychopath and say stabbing little children in the face is ethical.


I think you're confusing ethics with morals. Ethics are situational. Morals can be summed up as "do no harm". (except if you bring the Zombie Jeebus into it.)

_________________
BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it, or who has said it,
not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense. - GAUTAMA BUDDHA
Ferno
BDSM Fanatic




PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:47 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

No neo, you started this discussion to talk about how it's unethical to post off-topic replies in a thread. You only brought up the stabbing a child part in when Bunyip brought up ethics.

And when I or others edit your posts (which I suspect what this topic is all about), you come over here and bitch about it.

You need to understand that if you posted something relevant, productive, witty, sensible or otherwise contributes to the community at large, no one will "ninja" your post, as you put it. Fact is, you've kept both krom and I pretty busy with cleanup. Don't forget that you decided to shitpost in a more-than-one-year thread that was a sticky, just because you felt slighted. It was sort of dealing with a preteen who should know better, decided to complain about their parents treating them badly when said preteen thought it was a good idea to try and make trouble. Yes, we treated you like a child because.. you were BEING a child.
Avder
Hotshot




PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:40 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Would someone care to explain what this is all about for those of us who have not had that much time to read things on .net lately?

Would really love to know the actual context of this whole thing.
Flip
Ace




PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:51 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Shut up Neo, you crybaby Razz No one can get slapped in the mouth online. You gotta realize that and go with the flow. I only participate on .net and .com anyways, buncha wussies Razz LOL.
Bunyip
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:15 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Ferno wrote:
You only brought up the stabbing a child part in when Bunyip brought up ethics.


You might want to re-examine just exactly who actually brought ethics into the conversation. Admittedly, I did explain that Vince's post summed up our collective ethos here at .com, but that's been conveniently sidestepped Wink

_________________
BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it, or who has said it,
not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense. - GAUTAMA BUDDHA
Zuruck
Ace




PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:31 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

My ballbag is bigger than my bat.

Weird but strangely delicious for the ladies.
Ferno
BDSM Fanatic




PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:22 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Bunyip wrote:
You might want to re-examine just exactly who actually brought ethics into the conversation. Admittedly, I did explain that Vince's post summed up our collective ethos here at .com, but that's been conveniently sidestepped Wink


True, it was Vince.. but it seems to be a minor point. JFTR, I've left Neo's posts alone for a long time now. I think it's been something like seven months since I had to do anything.
Neo
[deleted]




PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:53 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

That's because nobody even cares about these forums or posting here; we get a new topic once in a blue moon, and I surely don't care about what you do, so there's no need to put anything on the broken record.

Ferno wrote:
No neo, you started this discussion to talk about how it's unethical to post off-topic replies in a thread. You only brought up the stabbing a child part in when Bunyip brought up ethics.


No, that part of my reply was not directed toward bunyip. Maybe you should take things into context more instead of assuming you already know what I mean. I started this discussion to talk about how 2 or 3 off-topic posts aren't a crime against humanity. If you really think it's that bad to post a few off-topic replies without a minor warning, you're an idiot.

Quote:
And when I or others edit your posts (which I suspect what this topic is all about), you come over here and bitch about it.


No, you edited some of my posts because you thought you had a better way of doing things, when you ended up doing things my way and claiming it as your own idea. Actually, I never said anything about my posts being edited here. You just said it: it's been several months since I said anything, and I've never talked about it here before, not even after it happened.

Quote:
You need to understand that if you posted something relevant, productive, witty, sensible or otherwise contributes to the community at large, no one will "ninja" your post, as you put it. Fact is, you've kept both krom and I pretty busy with cleanup. Don't forget that you decided to shitpost in a more-than-one-year thread that was a sticky, just because you felt slighted. It was sort of dealing with a preteen who should know better, decided to complain about their parents treating them badly when said preteen thought it was a good idea to try and make trouble. Yes, we treated you like a child because.. you were BEING a child.


You say I was being a child, but that's exactly what you did. I posted 3 things off-topic and I got railed for it. The truth is that there's no reason for me to care about your unwritten rules if you don't care about slighting me. You ended up doing what I suggested should be done in the first place, and then pretended I wasn't smart enough to come up with the idea several months before you did anything. Same thing goes for all the other ninja.

Krom doesn't even know me, so he doesn't know why he hates me, and his reason for muting me was merely ostensible. The real reason is because I didn't accept his BS sentiment on that topic.

I've pretty much ignored everyone else who you guys allow to bash me because many of them are deliberately trying to put me down just to make themselves feel bigger than they are.

Flip, you call me a crybaby but you get paranoid when I reply to you, even though I've never wished you any ill will and considered you to be at least a halfway-decent individual.
Neo
[deleted]




PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:01 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Bunyip wrote:
Neo wrote:
If that's the case then ethics is relative. I can be a psychopath and say stabbing little children in the face is ethical.


I think you're confusing ethics with morals. Ethics are situational. Morals can be summed up as "do no harm". (except if you bring the Zombie Jeebus into it.)


You already know what I mean, so there's no need to talk about semantics.
Bunyip
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:05 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Ferno wrote:
True, it was Vince..


No. Hint: Look at the thread title.

Between your scrambled mental processes and your high-handed moderating it's a wonder that users haven't gotten sick of your shit and started their own board where you're not in control. Wink

_________________
BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it, or who has said it,
not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense. - GAUTAMA BUDDHA
Flip
Ace




PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:12 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

I am not against you Neo, but I am in no way the one looking paranoid here. Everything I say is good-natured and in jest.
Bunyip
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:28 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Neo wrote:
You already know what I mean, so there's no need to talk about semantics.


Actually, no - I don't know what you mean.

Let's play a little game called "one of these things is not like the other":

You're saying that if it's OK to tell someone they're being stupid when they act stupidly, then it's also OK to stab little children in the face if it suits your psychopathic whim. I'm not going to get into the difference between social dynamics and maiming and murdering children, because if you can't see it then explanation won't help. That's not semantics. That's just a bad analogy.

It's perfectly cool with me if you post off topic, inane, or even insane posts. It's also perfectly cool with me if people give you a hard time for it, within reason. It's a form of peer pressure, sure. They're saying "pretend to be more like us and we won't give you a hard time". You don't have to succumb - but don't complain about the negative attention!

Quite frankly, we're venturing into the realm of "social interaction", which is fraught with perils for the unprepared. Worse, it's "social interaction in a text-only format" which is doubly perilous. It's obvious there's a disconnect for some people, despite their continued need to participate they keep getting railed by their peers. I don't know what else to say except a possibly apocryphal quote from Albert Einstein: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.", or maybe a little rah-rah from Anthony Robbins: “If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten.”

<shrug>

_________________
BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it, or who has said it,
not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense. - GAUTAMA BUDDHA
Thorne
Ace




PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:28 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Bunyip Condensed wrote:
Neo wrote:
You already know what I mean, so there's no need to talk about semantics.

Say whaaat?

Gametime:

You don't understand.

I don't care, but you're too sensitive. LOL.

You're a needy, socially unprepared loser times the internet!

<shrug>™

Does it really need to be that long? Einstein and Robbins kept it under 15 words... Razz

EDIT: It's late, I'm bored... I'm sorry. Wink

_________________
"Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might;
for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going."
Ferno
BDSM Fanatic




PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:48 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Bunyip wrote:
No. Hint: Look at the thread title.


You know as well as I do that it's a rules/conduct question. Seriously considering the deletion of offtopic posts as if they had real world ramifications is insanity.

Quote:
Between your scrambled mental processes and your high-handed moderating


helping out a person who was getting upset is high-handed? shutting down necro'd threads that have a small quip to try and ressurect them is high-handed? keeping things on topic is high handed? Thing is, both dbb's really are exceptions to the other boards out there, where even the slightest deviation gets you muzzled or banned.
Quote:
it's a wonder that users haven't gotten sick of your shit and started their own board where you're not in control. Wink
and I thought it was because you hated koolbear's "morality". then Sup's.. suing rant.. Then something else. hell, I don't know anymore, the names and reasons keep changing. But to put all this on me? damn you give me too much credit. It's easy to sit there and judge but.. did you ever stop to ask me why I did what I did?
Bunyip
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:08 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Ferny I'm not sure what you're even talking about anymore LOL!

_________________
BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it, or who has said it,
not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense. - GAUTAMA BUDDHA
Dedman
Insane!




PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:45 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

I like cheese.
roid
Inane!




PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:20 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

You might like this short story then Dedman, it contains a few literal fridge-fulls of cheese. A fun read.

http://recommendedreading.tumblr.com/post/29475857392/helen-dewitt-recovery

_________________
i'm here to ... uh,
roid
Inane!




PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:40 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Neo wrote:
...my friends were insulted, underestimated, and discredited (again)...


can someone give me a link to what neo's talking about here.
i'm honestly curious who Neo's friends are.

_________________
i'm here to ... uh,
roid
Inane!




PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:59 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

also i just want to point out that this thread is ridiculous: "wah wah i'm a known shitposter, why do i get shit for it?".
i mean... wtf.

no ordinary person can be this socially clueless, doesn't understand that actions have consequences.
i think neo has Aspergers or something.

Not insulting. It just might be a thing, that we all need to take into account, especially neo himself.

_________________
i'm here to ... uh,
Bunyip
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:01 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

I've been accused of being somewhere on the sarcasm spectrum. I think I may suffer from fairly severe smartassberger's - but it doesn't upset me if you point that out.

On the other hand, roid, saying things like that can certainly hurt someone's feelings. In fact, I've known people to get VERY upset at the very suggestion that they might be somewhere on the autism spectrum. They feel like it demeans them, I think. Personally, my feeling is that if you're being constructive it's ok but if you're being derogatory it's not.. Because if you can identify a problem, that's the first step to solving it, but picking on people for something they can't help is mean.

And I just realized I have justified being mean to some people, who, however richly they deserved a punch in the face probably didn't deserve me being mean to them about shit they have no control over instead. Hmm. Not among my best moments.

_________________
BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it, or who has said it,
not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense. - GAUTAMA BUDDHA
Neo
[deleted]




PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:06 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Thorne, if you're tired, go to sleep and post when you've had some coffee. Razz

Flip, I never said you are against me.

roid, I thought you said you didn't pay me any mind. Obviously you do. You're also asking for links about stuff that even a 9-year-old can find. When you get angry, I stop listening.

Quote:
within reason


The problem is that you are one of the more reasonable ones but in those cases you weren't the one doing the moderating. So what works for you apparently doesn't work for your boss. Razz

Also, I've been following Anthony Robbins' advice for years. I stopped posting serious off-topic replies here because I know how anal-retentive nazi terrorists get.

...and real world versus here; if you do this stuff here, what won't you do out there? Will you attack someone when you think you're safe?
Bunyip
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:32 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Neo, your comments in regard to the real world are interesting because if you say something stupid "IRL" there are repercussions. In a truly no-brainer parallel, if you say something stupid online, there are also repercussions.

The difference is that IRL you're likely to get verbally abused - accompanied by a punch in the nose - while online they just verbally abuse you! That's a tough choice, right?

My question to you is how do you act IRL? Are you as contentious, difficult, contrary and offensive to others there as you are here? Do you walk up to people, interject extremely strange off-kilter & out of context comments into a conversation? Do you tell them you hope their house burns down because they disagree with you? Do you deride their hobbies and interests?

_________________
BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it, or who has said it,
not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense. - GAUTAMA BUDDHA
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