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MD-2389
Insane!




PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:17 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Zuruck wrote:
Hey MD, why don't you read all the posts instead of reading one and thinking you've got it all figured out. The guy called the cops, they told him to stay inside, he got his gun, went outside and blew them both away. They were not trying to enter his house or steal anything of his. But yeah, we've already passed this part of the conversation. But thanks for your contributions!


Ok, so you knew exactly what those two criminals were going to do?

*waits for witty dodge attempt made of fail*
Zuruck
Ace




PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:28 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Nope. Don't know at all what they were about to do.

But I'm certainly not going to preemptively shoot a kid in the head if he steals a pack of gum in front of me at the store now am I?
Neo
[deleted]




PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:19 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

I think Zuruck is on the right track here. Maybe you gunslingers should pay attention. Razz
B-
Cocked & Locked




PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:21 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

"Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

_________________
i found peace mother fucker-Jbomb
..its fucking retarded to be a bigot. so chew on that....faggots.- jbomb
Ferno
BDSM Fanatic




PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:13 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Zuruck wrote:
Nope. Don't know at all what they were about to do.

But I'm certainly not going to preemptively shoot a kid in the head if he steals a pack of gum in front of me at the store now am I?



you know what's awesome? making a mountain out of a molehill.
Zuruck
Ace




PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:16 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

How did I do that Ferno? The argument has been put forth that these men were criminals and this old man did not know what their future intentions were and saved society trouble by taking them out. Would I not be doing the same thing? A pack a gum one day and a television the next, that's the logical way I should be thinking about criminals right?
MD-2389
Insane!




PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:01 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Zuruck wrote:
Nope. Don't know at all what they were about to do.


And neither did he. They were headed towards his home, and he didn't take a chance on them breaking into his next. You know, for the reasons I mentioned on the previous page.

Quote:
But I'm certainly not going to preemptively shoot a kid in the head if he steals a pack of gum in front of me at the store now am I?


And there you go again, grasping at straws...
Zuruck
Ace




PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:10 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Ummm...you can't just make up things to justify your beliefs dude. They weren't heading towards his home.
Neo
[deleted]




PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:23 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Isn't arguing with people who don't care what others have to say the definition of making a mountain out of a molehill? Razz Besides, who says you don't make a molehill out of a mountain most of the time. Razz
Ferno
BDSM Fanatic




PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:02 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Zuruck wrote:
preemptively shoot a kid
Mountain^^
Quote:
steals a pack of gum in front of me
Molehill ^^

Pretty simple, dude.


Quote:
A pack a gum one day and a television the next


and OH MY GOD! He's murdered sixteen people and razed an entire city block!

Isn't hyperbole delicious? Very Happy
Neo
[deleted]




PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:11 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Actually, the point Zuruck was trying to make that you're apparently missing is actually more simple than that, as far as I'm concerned, anyway. Razz
Ferno
BDSM Fanatic




PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:04 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Neo wrote:
as far as I'm concerned, anyway. Razz


yup!
Neo
[deleted]




PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:01 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

So basically what you're saying is... I'm getting more out of this than you ever could, regardless of Zuruck's intent. Thanks, bro, I didn't know you cared. ^_~ I assume that's what you mean by your vague reply.
Ferno
BDSM Fanatic




PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:34 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

sure. why not?
d3jake
Ace




PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:40 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Ferno wrote:
Zuruck wrote:
preemptively shoot a kid
Mountain^^
Quote:
steals a pack of gum in front of me
Molehill ^^

Pretty simple, dude.

Quote:
A pack a gum one day and a television the next


and OH MY GOD! He's murdered sixteen people and razed an entire city block!

Isn't hyperbole delicious? Very Happy


I agree. It's a jump of logic, but its a jump the likes of which hasn't been seen since the last Summer Olympic pole vaulting event. Im my opinion the link is there, but it's too much of a jump.

_________________
"You don't need a deity floating among high with a huge fucking bat to understand the difference between right and wrong." -MD-2389
Neo
[deleted]




PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:48 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Ferno wrote:
sure. why not?


I sea wut yu did thare. >_>
Foil
2*pi*r




PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:55 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

There are two very poor jumps in logic here, IMHO:

Zuruck jumped from
"you guys support pre-emptively shooting criminals?"
to
"you guys would shoot a kid for stealing gum?".
...Seriously?


MD-2389 jumped from
"there's a burglar in another house"
to
"might be a robber/killer on the loose, you're in danger"
to
"for your own safety, leave your house and confront 'em".
...Seriously?

Rolling Eyes

_________________
"You seem a decent fellow. I hate to kill you."
"You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die."
Zuruck
Ace




PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:41 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Yes Foil, seriously. The idea has been put forth by Krom and Hattrick, among others, that the old man that shot the two burglars did the world a favor because he saved future crimes from occurring. Now, the punishment in the legal system for burglary is not death, but this same armchair cowboy crowd here thinks that the punishment is justified. Therefore, would society not be justified for eradicating criminals regardless of the offense to avoid future illegal activities?
Ferno
BDSM Fanatic




PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:44 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Zuruck: what you are not seeing is that they did not know whether or not the perpetrators only intended to rob a single house. Now, I am not saying the person who shot them was justified by his actions, but he also was not willing to take the risk of anyone being physically harmed by the robbers.
Bunyip
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:51 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

You know, before this goes too much further, let's get something straight - the guy called them over to him. Then shot them. IN THE BACK ...and was acquitted. I say he got away with murder - and I am firmly on the side of gun rights.

Do the research, listen to the 911 call, read the reports. Then discuss.

Thanks.

_________________
BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it, or who has said it,
not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense. - GAUTAMA BUDDHA
Zuruck
Ace




PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:46 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Thanks Bun for the info. Now perhaps I am misinterpreting the message that our fellow internet personalities are trying to convey, but what concerns me is the complete lack of common sense that some of these guys are displaying.

I've given up the gun control issue; I don't think that's even what we're debating here. As for as I'm concerned, the gun issue is done and over with. If someone doesn't want to use a gun safe or trigger locks and their kid blows their head off, that's something they have to deal with. But I like what this topic has evolved into. I don't like, however, the disconnect that some people have in regards to that crazed Texan's antics. I've listened to the 911 call, the guy seemed as though he was jacked up to go out there and do some damage. Police were already in route; he could have locked his door and waited. If the burglars had come through his door, I would have absolutely NO problem with him defending himself. Regardless of how you view the competency of the police force, the man had no right to go outside and summarily execute those two men. Justice should have been served and that crazed old man should have been executed. I know they do that in Texas for jaywalking these days.
Woodchip
Ace




PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:57 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Zuruck wrote:
Yes I do. In Krom's world, you can be put to death for burglary. Petty theft is punishable by a mere slash wound.


Best line of the whole thread.
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:37 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Seriously: yes, I agree w/ Bun. The guy got away w/ murder. I'm not too sorry for the guys he shot tho, they had it comming. And no, I would not have done the same thing (unless they had come into my home.) I can't tell you how I would have decided if I had been on the jury trying the old man.

I admire your passion for a less violent society, unfortunately it's not the way things are headed -- the more you pack people the less the individual life is worth if the culture doesn't change as well (got to you too: "Justice should have been served and that crazed old man should have been executed.") Over the years I got quite cynical -- IMHO many deaths can be attributed to "evolution in action", incl. the two in discussion.

_________________
Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
Bunyip
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:29 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

This about sums it up:

The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

_________________
BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it, or who has said it,
not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense. - GAUTAMA BUDDHA
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:36 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

I'm all for it. Coincidental I just read this article.

_________________
Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
Neo
[deleted]




PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:32 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Just America?
Bunyip
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:42 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

SRSLY Neo? You need to get out more I think.

_________________
BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it, or who has said it,
not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense. - GAUTAMA BUDDHA
Neo
[deleted]




PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:39 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

I hope so, for your sake.
Zuruck
Ace




PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:52 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Epic thread fail?

Where are we now?
B-
Cocked & Locked




PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:36 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Quote:
If someone doesn't want to use a gun safe or trigger locks and their kid blows their head off, that's something they have to deal with.


Very nice! I couldn't agree more! I despise the idea that an outsider thinks they know what's best for me and forces their (usually uneducated) opinion by legislation. I can only hope that people will chose to take the wisest precautions for their circumstance.

Quote:
But I like what this topic has evolved into. I don't like, however, the disconnect that some people have in regards to that crazed Texan's antics. I've listened to the 911 call, the guy seemed as though he was jacked up to go out there and do some damage. Police were already in route; he could have locked his door and waited. If the burglars had come through his door, I would have absolutely NO problem with him defending himself. Regardless of how you view the competency of the police force, the man had no right to go outside and summarily execute those two men.


The guy should be charged. I think any reasonable person realizes that lethal force should be used as the last resort. His actions are a black eye on firearms/self-defense enthusiasts. Like Grendal, I do not feel sorry for the thieves.
That said, I think there's a general frustration toward the revolving door of our justice system and I can totally relate to not wanting to let them get away. Holding them at gunpoint until law enforcement arrived would have been proper.

Nice to see Zurck slightly less savage toward firearms.

_________________
i found peace mother fucker-Jbomb
..its fucking retarded to be a bigot. so chew on that....faggots.- jbomb
Neo
[deleted]




PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:25 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

The sign on the revolving door doesn't read "our justice system," it reads CRIMINAL justice system. ^_~

Quote:
Holding them at gunpoint until law enforcement arrived would have been proper.


Yeah, that's what I say too. Finally people are starting to understand. Razz
Flip
Ace




PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:16 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

You only have 2 choices here. Stay inside and call 911 or shoot them. Hold them at gunpoint is a bunch of bullshit if their armed too.
Neo
[deleted]




PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:08 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Not really. If they're armed too, tell them to drop their projectile weapons. If they don't drop them and they begin to aim it at you, shoot them. Razz
Flip
Ace




PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:13 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Quote:
If they don't drop them and they begin to aim it at you


At this point, you have left a great deal to chance. 2 choices, duck and stay out of the way or kill them instantly. Anything else and you've put your own life in extreme danger. I think it's naive to think you can just walk up to armed criminals and demand they give up.
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:38 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

About as naive as thinking you can instantly kill someone who's starting to aim at you.. Wink

_________________
Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
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