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   Descent BB Forum Index > Ethics and Commentary > You know, this PC crap is really starting to piss me off... Post new topic   Reply to topic
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MD-2389
Insane!




PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 10:33 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/six-high-school-students-sent-home-for-wearing-american-flags-on-cinco-de-mayo-92971429.html

Quote:
Six high school students sent home for wearing American flags on Cinco de Mayo
By: Mark Hemingway
Commentary Staff Writer
05/06/10 11:42 AM EDT

If this isnít representative of the current tensions of immigration, I donít know what is:

On any other day at Live Oak High School in Morgan Hill, Daniel Galli and his four friends would not even be noticed for wearing T-shirts with the American flag. But Cinco de Mayo is not any typical day especially on a campus with a large Mexican American student population.

Galli says he and his friends were sitting at a table during brunch break when the vice principal asked two of the boys to remove American flag bandannas that they wearing on their heads and for the others to turn their American flag T-shirts inside out. When they refused, the boys were ordered to go to the principalís office.

ďThey said we could wear it on any other day,Ē Daniel Galli said, ďbut today is sensitive to Mexican-Americans because itís supposed to be their holiday so we were not allowed to wear it today.Ē

The boys said the administrators called their T-shirts ďincendiaryĒ that would lead to fights on campus.


I understand the school administrators are most likely trying to avoid conflict by taking the path of least resistance here. The article goes on to quote an Hispanic student saying she was offended. Further, itís not clear how deliberately provocative the students in question were being. Still, Iím not sure this is defensible on any grounds, and it seems that the school district has issued a statement saying disagreeing with the school administrationís actions.

But why is it not possible to be proud of your Mexican heritage and your American heritage at the same time? Why does this need to be an obvious conflict? Cinco de Mayo may nominally be about celebrating the victory of the Battle of Puebla, but in practice itís become sort of the Hispanic version of St. Patrickís day. In fact, Cinco de Mayo is far more widely celebrated in America than it is in Mexico. It seems really unfortunate Mexican-American students would be offended by an American flag on whatís become ostensibly a holiday to celebrate the Hispanic influence in the U.S.


I'm sorry, but that is just utterly ridiculous to punish students for showing pride in their nation's flag. If anyone was offended, just because they wore it on a holiday celebrated by a foreign country, too fucking bad. Do you see us pitching a fit because you want to party and get drunk for one day? Hell no! Some of us have even embraced it as a "holiday", kinda like 4\20 is a "holiday". If you don't like it that people are proud of their own country, a place they were born and raised in, suck it up and move on. You won't get any sympathy from me.

edit: typo...
Zuruck
Ace




PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 5:45 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Yah it's kinda dumb. If the students wearing the flags (desecration btw) were causing problems that's one thing, but if they weren't I don't get what the problem is.

Since when do schools let people wear hats or bandanas?

edit: You're embarrassed it's a holiday? Why?
roid
Inane!




PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 3:54 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Zuruck wrote:
Since when do schools let people wear hats


hats prevent sunburn, and thus prevent skin cancer. In my schools it was generally compulsory to wear them.

_________________
i'm here to ... uh,
Bunyip
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 6:42 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Zuruck wrote:
You're embarrassed it's a holiday? Why?


I'm sure it's because he strongly believes that Sept. 16th is a better date to celebrate Mexican Independence, as it is much more strongly correlated to our July 4th celebration.

_________________
BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it, or who has said it,
not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense. - GAUTAMA BUDDHA
Hattrick
Hog Whisperer




PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 7:21 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Hmmm, I may be wrong But i believe he meant to use the word Embraced, not embarrased.

It was a pretty ridiculous decision on the schools part. Especially since Cinco de mayo is an american made "holiday" anyway. As Bunyip pointed out Mexican independence day is actually september 16th.

_________________
I was born ok the first time!
wisdom comes with age. Sometimes age comes alone.
Perediablo
Ace




PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 8:00 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

It is not the Mexican independence day. It marks the victory of the Mexican Army over the French at the Battle of Puebla.

Quote:
Cinco de Mayo's history has its roots in the French Occupation of Mexico. The French occupation took shape in the aftermath of the Mexican-American War of 1846-48. With this war, Mexico entered a period of national crisis during the 1850's. Years of not only fighting the Americans but also a Civil War, had left Mexico devastated and bankrupt. On July 17, 1861, President Benito Juarez issued a moratorium in which all foreign debt payments would be suspended for a brief period of two years, with the promise that after this period, payments would resume.

The English, Spanish and French refused to allow president Juarez to do this, and instead decided to invade Mexico and get payments by whatever means necessary. The Spanish and English eventually withdrew, but the French refused to leave. Their intention was to create an Empire in Mexico under Napoleon III. Some have argued that the true French occupation was a response to growing American power and to the Monroe Doctrine (America for the Americans). Napoleon III believed that if the United States was allowed to prosper indescriminantly, it would eventually become a power in and of itself.

In 1862, the French army began its advance. Under General Ignacio Zaragoza, 5,000 ill-equipped Mestizo and Zapotec Indians defeated the French army in what came to be known as the "Batalla de Puebla" on the fifth of May.

In the United States, the "Batalla de Puebla" came to be known as simply "5 de Mayo" and unfortunately, many people wrongly equate it with Mexican Independence which was on September 16, 1810, nearly a fifty year difference. Over, the years Cinco de Mayo has become very commercialized and many people see this holiday as a time for fun and dance. Oddly enough, Cinco de Mayo has become more of Chicano holiday than a Mexican one. Cinco de Mayo is celebrated on a much larger scale here in the United States than it is in Mexico. People of Mexican descent in the United States celebrate this significant day by having parades, mariachi music, folklorico dancing and other types of festive activities.


Wear whatever you want to wear, wherever you want to wear it. Like, a Cannibal Corpse t-shirt to a vacation bible school camp. Or a coat hanger t-shirt to an abortion clinic. Who cares. Maybe everything needs to come with a box of tissues for all the cry babies that are going to bitch about it.

_________________
"To design is to communicate clearly by whatever means you can control or master." _Milton Glaser
Bunyip
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 8:38 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Right from the beginning, I think our Nation's founders recognized that the price of free speech might be a punch in the nose...

_________________
BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it, or who has said it,
not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense. - GAUTAMA BUDDHA
Perediablo
Ace




PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 9:29 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Bunyip wrote:
Right from the beginning, I think our Nation's founders recognized that the price of free speech might be a punch in the nose...


Agreed.

_________________
"To design is to communicate clearly by whatever means you can control or master." _Milton Glaser
MD-2389
Insane!




PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 11:09 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Hattrick wrote:
Hmmm, I may be wrong But i believe he meant to use the word Embraced, not embarrased.


Yeah, stupid auto-correct. Razz

Perediablo wrote:
Wear whatever you want to wear, wherever you want to wear it. Like, a Cannibal Corpse t-shirt to a vacation bible school camp. Or a coat hanger t-shirt to an abortion clinic. Who cares. Maybe everything needs to come with a box of tissues for all the cry babies that are going to bitch about it.


Or maybe a roll of duct tape, so we can tape their traps shut.
Flatlander
Hotshot




PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 7:16 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

They shoulda worn shirts with the French flag on it instead... Laughing
MD-2389
Insane!




PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 2:17 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Flatlander wrote:
They shoulda worn shirts with the French flag on it instead... Laughing


Yeah, but they would've had to surrender afterward! Laughing
Smotie
The Wombat




PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:22 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Freedom of Speech is a luxury only afforded to the minority, for the rest it's called bigotry.
Zuruck
Ace




PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 11:02 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Yes you're right Smotie, the poor white man /woman have been beaten down for so long. When is someone finally going to enact laws that benefit them?
MD-2389
Insane!




PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 8:42 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Zuruck wrote:
Yes you're right Smotie, the poor white man /woman have been beaten down for so long. When is someone finally going to enact laws that benefit them?


Probably when it's not considered racist. Wink
Bunyip
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 9:24 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Smotie wrote:
Freedom of Speech is a luxury only afforded to the minority, for the rest it's called bigotry.


Freedom of speech is when you can express whatever opinions you wish, bigoted or not, pro- or anti- government (pro- or anti- whatever), without legal consequence...at least within the limits of libel and slander (demonstrably false and damaging statements about another). Once again, however, I refer you to my thesis that the cost of freedom of speech is sometimes a punch in the nose.

The worst kind of racism is "oh poor me" racism on the part of a minority... It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. White people will be a minority soon enough in the USA. <Shrug> It's stupid to dwell on the past. Get with the future - or be marginalized.

_________________
BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it, or who has said it,
not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense. - GAUTAMA BUDDHA
Zuruck
Ace




PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 5:48 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

From Roger Ebert about this debacle.

"Kids who wear American Flag t-shirts on 5 May should have to share a lunchroom table with those who wear a hammer and sickle on 4 July"

A jism more:

The question is obviously not whether Americans, or anyone else, has the right to wear our flag on their t-shirts. But empathetic people realize much depends on context. If, on Cinco de Mayo, you turn up at your school with a large Mexican-American student population wearing such shirts, are you (1) joining in the spirit of the holiday, or (2) looking for trouble?

I suggest you intend to insult your fellow students. Not because they do not respect THEIR flag, but because you do not respect their heritage. That there are five of you in matching shirts demonstrates you want to be deliberately provocative.
Flip
Ace




PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 5:53 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Yeah but as an American I can be as provocative as I want as long as I'm not harming anyone. It seems like a peaceful demonstration to me.
Zuruck
Ace




PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 5:55 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Well I can understand that flip but can you also understand where a school might want to head off a confrontation between five students and a large hispanic population?
Flip
Ace




PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 6:09 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

True enough, but another way besides repression would be to advise each separate group of their rights of free expression and peaceful demonstration.
Woodchip
Ace




PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 7:15 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Zuruck wrote:
Yes you're right Smotie, the poor white man /woman have been beaten down for so long. When is someone finally going to enact laws that benefit them?


Just what laws are keeping any "Legal" minority from the same benefits as anyone else?
Woodchip
Ace




PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 7:26 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Zuruck wrote:

If, on Cinco de Mayo, you turn up at your school with a large Mexican-American student population wearing such shirts, are you (1) joining in the spirit of the holiday, or (2) looking for trouble?


So why are we allowing a jingoistic expression by the Mexican-Americans? Perhaps the true problem is groups of people more concerned about their foreign roots than the fact they are American. Have we devolved to the point where we should have Polish-American demonstrations? Irish-American? Japanese-American? In this day of rampant illegal Mexican border crossings, I think as mad as a lot of Americans are about it, the last thing you want to do is goad the bull by waving a red flag in front of it and then wonder why the bull gored you.
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:09 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Woodchip wrote:
Have we devolved to the point where we should have Polish-American demonstrations? Irish-American? Japanese-American?

Are you expecting them to keep quiet ? Like the Japanese-Americans in the camps ? Or the African-Americans working in the cotton fields ? The Native-Americans pushed into small areas maybe ? Don't be a hypocrit.

Woodchip wrote:
the last thing you want to do is goad the bull by waving a red flag in front of it and then wonder why the bull gored you.

Goes both ways.

_________________
Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
Spidey
Hotshot




PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 2:59 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Grendal, you are comparing those things to an excuse to drink holidayoid?

Maybe the majority at that school, need some minority sensitivity training.

_________________
Better to be pissed off, than to be pissed on.
Zuruck
Ace




PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 3:55 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

woody, mind you those were Roger Ebert's words, not mine. Of course, the response to him from some supporters of the law was pretty horrific.

You guys seem to be forgetting the crux of the sitation. The school has every right to quell a potential problem. Just can't say whatever you want in a school and you can't wear whatever you want in a school. Normally the dress codes apply to 15 year old girls dressing like whores but I'm sure they have a clause that says the school reserves the right to make decisions based on what they feel is right.

If people want to wear a shirt that has a flag, even though it's technically desecration, that's fine. But to go to a school, wearing the US flag, on a Hispanic holiday, whether or not they directly wanted to cause a problem, the school has the right to act in their best interests. They weren't arrested walking down a public street, they were told to avoid a conflict at school.

I'm kind of baffled that you guys fight something like this. I mean, are you completely unable to see rational thinking?

edit: You know woody, Chicago has tons of ethnic parades and holidays. Hell, we even have Casimir Pulaski day as a state holiday. The Puerto Ricans have a massive celebration here, maybe you need to get out of that shit small town in Michigan and realize that there are plenty of other cultures that celebrate their heritage. Not just the Mexicans bro...
Woodchip
Ace




PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 6:00 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Zuruck wrote:
woody, mind you those were Roger Ebert's words, not mine. Of course, the response to him from some supporters of the law was pretty horrific.


Understood

Zuruck wrote:
You guys seem to be forgetting the crux of the sitation. The school has every right to quell a potential problem. Just can't say whatever you want in a school and you can't wear whatever you want in a school. Normally the dress codes apply to 15 year old girls dressing like whores but I'm sure they have a clause that says the school reserves the right to make decisions based on what they feel is right.

If people want to wear a shirt that has a flag, even though it's technically desecration, that's fine. But to go to a school, wearing the US flag, on a Hispanic holiday, whether or not they directly wanted to cause a problem, the school has the right to act in their best interests. They weren't arrested walking down a public street, they were told to avoid a conflict at school.

I'm kind of baffled that you guys fight something like this. I mean, are you completely unable to see rational thinking?


Actually this is a bit like a bar not allowing biker colors to be worn. In the schools case, either they do not allow the wearing of any clothing with national colors or flags....or they allow any and all to wear what they wish.

Zuruck wrote:
edit: You know woody, Chicago has tons of ethnic parades and holidays. Hell, we even have Casimir Pulaski day as a state holiday. The Puerto Ricans have a massive celebration here, maybe you need to get out of that shit small town in Michigan and realize that there are plenty of other cultures that celebrate their heritage. Not just the Mexicans bro...


Back in the early 70's, after I got out of Uncle Sams employ, I lived in Chicago for about a year. For a social science class a buddy and I would hop on the EL and ride a line out to where it ended and then go to the local ethnic bars. Great times and the paper I wrote about it got a "A". So would you like to rephrase your comment about getting out of my "shit" small town? Wink
MD-2389
Insane!




PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 12:50 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Zuruck wrote:
Well I can understand that flip but can you also understand where a school might want to head off a confrontation between five students and a large hispanic population?


Zuruck wrote:
You guys seem to be forgetting the crux of the sitation. The school has every right to quell a potential problem. Just can't say whatever you want in a school and you can't wear whatever you want in a school. Normally the dress codes apply to 15 year old girls dressing like whores but I'm sure they have a clause that says the school reserves the right to make decisions based on what they feel is right.


You mean like actually enforcing the dress code, and keeping students from wearing gang colors? You'll let me know when they actually succeed with that, won't you? (and no, schools with uniforms don't count)

This makes about as much sense as the school reprimanding them for wearing the school colors that same day.
Krom
DBB Admin




PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 1:56 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

What the hell is the problem with celebrating the American flag in America?

_________________
(19:11) [D3k]Gooberman: pffft, I didnt get owned baal, you just got 60 lucky fusion shots
Woodchip
Ace




PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 2:16 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Krom wrote:
What the hell is the problem with celebrating the American flag in America?


Liberals Wink
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