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Smotie
The Wombat




PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:34 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Gday all, just wanted to start a post about the events of my life and about 300 others in the last year.

This time last year as you all might know I was in a church group called the Potters House Christian Center. I became a Christian when I was 15. Whilst my experience with Christ was and is real to this day, I had no idea as to what group I was involved in. It all began with the unwarranted sacking of our Pastor by the World leader of the Church movement for no reason other than..."he lied" and he is "plotting against me".

Anyway myself and my family along with 300 others in the church left and became embroiled in a church split. It became nasty and a lot of "unchristian" behavior resulted.

Anyway I wanted to focus on a couple of things.

After I left I became aware of "cultish" practices that the Church group practices. I didn't see the cultish nature of these until afterwards although I was questioning some for some time.

Here they are.

1. No T.V.s allowed and no attending movies
2. Men aren't allowed to go to the beach in summer for obvious reasons.
3. You must "cut off" those friends who leave the church and family if they speak against the church. (I myself have been cut off by close friends of 20 years)
4. Mind control and conditioning.
5. The Pastor is your "headship" or boss. If you don't do what he says then you are rebelling against God.
6. Labelling all other church groups as religious and not even saved.

I would also like to offer my apology to all those I offended in my rants in the name of religion. It was part of mind conditioning I was exposed to. I realise that abusive militant preaching at people is wrong. Although sharing the Gospel with those who want to hear it is not.

This has been a huge learning experience and life experience for me and I hope I have come out of it a better person and a more balanced understanding of my faith.

Not all church groups are like this. And my faith in christ is real but my understanding of church groups is a lot better after this experience.

Anyway just thought I would share my experience with my friends here and if you get invited to a Potters House Church, be careful.


Smile
Foil
2*pi*r




PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:55 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Wow. Crazy stuff.

It's good to hear that you didn't abandon the entire Christian faith because of a bad church-group, Smotie.

I've never experienced anything quite like the above, but I left my family's home church during college, partly because of some lesser weirdness. The only thing I can suggest from my own experience is that if you have close family who are still clinging to that group, be patient with them, and just be honest about your reasons for leaving.

_________________
"You seem a decent fellow. I hate to kill you."
"You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die."
Flip
Ace




PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:26 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Guilt inflicted men imposing their sense of punishment on themselves and others.
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:14 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Glad to hear you got out. Good luck w/ discovering the rest of the world Smile
TheWhat
Insane!




PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:50 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Smotie wrote:
1. No T.V.s allowed and no attending movies

Most of it's garbage anyway, your former leader prolly did you a favor.
*edit* but they let you play videogames and use tha intanet?

Smotie wrote:
2. Men aren't allowed to go to the beach in summer for obvious reasons.

Your former leader either had a small penis, couldn't keep it up, was a pre-mature ejaculator, physically unattractive or all of the above.

Smotie wrote:
3. You must "cut off" those friends who leave the church and family if they speak against the church. (I myself have been cut off by close friends of 20 years)

I would have said "Why don't you suck the dirty dog water out of my diseased pleasure pump. I'm an adult - I am friends with who I choose." to your former leader.

Smotie wrote:
4. Mind control and conditioning.

As illustrated by the previous 3.

Smotie wrote:
5. The Pastor is your "headship" or boss. If you don't do what he says then you are rebelling against God.

That's not rational in any way and I'm not claiming rationality in any way.

Smotie wrote:
6. Labelling all other church groups as religious and not even saved.

Gee, never heard that one from "real" Christians before.

I'm not trying to make light of your life, I just don't understand how entire families listen to these shucksters. I guess that's why they limit their members access to information and the rest of the human race.

There are lots of people out there folks and they don't much care what you think.

_________________
Richard Dawkins stole my woman with his big evolved dick.
Bunyip
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:00 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Gotta respect a man for sticking to his guns. Also gotta respect a man for seeing when there's a problem and making a change.

You have my respect Smotie. Not always my AGREEMENT. But always my respect, even if it doesn't feel like it.

_________________
BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it, or who has said it,
not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense. - GAUTAMA BUDDHA
Neo
[deleted]




PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:35 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Smotie ^_^

We need to find a game that we will both play. ^_^ Only problem with that, though, is the lag Sad

hug <3
Smotie
The Wombat




PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:53 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Thx guys. I agree with all of your posts. Already the world is opened up to a lot of us. It is amazing what we were "kept" from.

It is strange that TV's were forbidden but the internet wasn't. The Internet is a thousand times more dangerous than T.V. and I am not even including Porn lol.
The leader publicly preached and banned people in the church from reading the forums about the split though. It is the worst kind of information control.

Bunyip thx for your respect. I appreciate it.

Neo do you play Call of duty 4??
Floyd
Hotshot




PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:24 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Smotie wrote:
4. Mind control and conditioning.

Smotie wrote:
The leader publicly preached and banned people in the church from reading the forums about the split though. It is the worst kind of information control.

is "the leader" creationist, by chance?
BFDiddy
Hotshot




PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:28 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Religion is a neurological disorder.

_________________
stresstest is my boyfriend.
Foil
2*pi*r




PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:15 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Floyd wrote:
is "the leader" creationist, by chance?


I believe you mean "Young-Earth creationist" (the ones who deny the age of the universe, etc.).

All Christians, by virtue of believing in a creator, are by definition "creationist".

_________________
"You seem a decent fellow. I hate to kill you."
"You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die."
Smotie
The Wombat




PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:10 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Foil wrote:
Floyd wrote:
is "the leader" creationist, by chance?


I believe you mean "Young-Earth creationist" (the ones who deny the age of the universe, etc.).

All Christians, by virtue of believing in a creator, are by definition "creationist".


He does believe that the Earth is 6000 years old. As do I but I believe that God created the Earth and universe "old". So any testing by scientists that say it is 20 million years old may be correct. That is just my view and not necessarily right.
Flip
Ace




PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:54 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Let every man be a liar Smile
Pandora
Hotshot




PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:45 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Great that you and your family got out, Smotie, and also that you still stick to your beliefs. Its so easy for one bad experience taint everything else. Good luck!

_________________
"Science is the best defence against believing what we want to." --- Ian Stewart
Pandora
Hotshot




PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:49 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

TheWhat wrote:
I'm not trying to make light of your life, I just don't understand how entire families listen to these shucksters. I guess that's why they limit their members access to information and the rest of the human race.

Well, I think they are just very good a sucking people in, and then it is a slippery slope, if everything we know about how Scientology does it is any indication.

_________________
"Science is the best defence against believing what we want to." --- Ian Stewart
Smotie
The Wombat




PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:17 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Pandora wrote:
TheWhat wrote:
I'm not trying to make light of your life, I just don't understand how entire families listen to these shucksters. I guess that's why they limit their members access to information and the rest of the human race.

Well, I think they are just very good a sucking people in, and then it is a slippery slope, if everything we know about how Scientology does it is any indication.


Thx Pandora.

You know I have to say that when I first joined the Church as a 15 year old kid I was radically saved. The Church was very good and started out without all these rules and controlling things. After a while it started to change and ended up after 30 years what it is today. Bit like the frog in the pond thing.

We all didn't realise what was happening. It isn't a rare event. Some friends of our went to another church and a similar thing happened. They actually had a rule that you weren't allowed to watch MA movies.

Weird that a Church would define and try to order your life to the smallest detail. Shocked
MD-2389
Insane!




PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:07 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Wow, talk about taking things to an extreme! What next, total isolationism? Next you'll be telling us that they'll be using something like this as an inspirational poster:

Neo
[deleted]




PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:54 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Smotie wrote:
Neo do you play Call of duty 4??


I did play the single player, which was kind of interesting, but the multiplayer I hear bad things about. Razz It did win Game of the Year, but then again, so did Half-Life. Razz I'll wait until it reaches the bargain binz before I buy it tho. Smile ...not that I've been checking prices recently. lol ...but you play it, so it must be fun.... or at least bearable. Razz
Beowulf
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:45 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

There's a Mark Twain quote that goes something like "don't ever let school come in the way of your education." I think it also applies in this instance...don't let religion come in the way of your faith.

says the atheist Razz

_________________
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson
Smotie
The Wombat




PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:35 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Beowulf wrote:
There's a Mark Twain quote that goes something like "don't ever let school come in the way of your education." I think it also applies in this instance...don't let religion come in the way of your faith.

says the atheist Razz


Very good point Be...I learned my lesson well. Only took 25 years. I'm a bit of a slow learner lol.
roid
Inane!




PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:49 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

I was born into a similar situation but it drove me to Atheism instead*.

High 5 Smotie, it's hard to get out.
I hope we helped*.

(* the DBB helped me)

_________________
i'm here to ... uh,
Thorne
Ace




PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:12 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

That's why its so important to know your Bible. But I think that's one of the hardest situations to break away from.

Glad you're free of that, Smotie. Good luck to you (I don't believe in luck, but you know what I mean).

Why would God create the universe old? Razz That doesn't make any sense.

P.S. I think most "other" church groups are just religious. Any movement, any group that is not founded and directed by God can only be religious; And that's why most are just religious, because that's not a natural thing--People naturally have their own ideas, their own beliefs, their own plans for how things should be, but that's not Christianity as we can see it in the word of God at all. Let the word of God and the fruit born of their lives be the judge.

_________________
"Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might;
for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going."
Smotie
The Wombat




PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:42 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Thorne wrote:
That's why its so important to know your Bible. But I think that's one of the hardest situations to break away from.

Glad you're free of that, Smotie. Good luck to you (I don't believe in luck, but you know what I mean).

Why would God create the universe old? Razz That doesn't make any sense.

P.S. I think most "other" church groups are just religious. Any movement, any group that is not founded and directed by God can only be religious; And that's why most are just religious, because that's not a natural thing--People naturally have their own ideas, their own beliefs, their own plans for how things should be, but that's not Christianity as we can see it in the word of God at all. Let the word of God and the fruit born of their lives be the judge.


I agree it is most important to know your Bible. Some things didn't add up for years but in the group you are made to think that if your revelation from the Bible is different to what the group teaches then you are in rebellion or deceived, so truths were pushed aside.

Why would God create the universe old?? Thats easy!!! To fool the evolutionists hahaha J/K.
Nah it stands to reason...Adam and eve were created as adults. All animals and plant life were created at an advanced stage of life. For us to see light 2 million light years away it would have to put in place across the galaxy "now" if the earth is only 6000 years old. Otherwise we wouldn't see the stars yet.
My logic anyway Razz

Religious groups are rife on the earth. But they labeled ALL other groups religious even if they were seeing fruit in their lives.
Flip
Ace




PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:56 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Quote:
For us to see light 2 million light years away it would have to put in place across the galaxy "now" if the earth is only 6000 years old. Otherwise we wouldn't see the stars yet.
My logic anyway Razz


Heh. Now this should make for some good discussion >: ). I got no idea how old the earth is. Not sure I care, but I do love arguing inconsistency. Whether it's the preacher or the atheist making them.
Bee
Miss Priss




PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:23 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Flip wrote:
Quote:
For us to see light 2 million light years away it would have to put in place across the galaxy "now" if the earth is only 6000 years old. Otherwise we wouldn't see the stars yet.
My logic anyway Razz


Heh. Now this should make for some good discussion >: ). I got no idea how old the earth is. Not sure I care, but I do love arguing inconsistency. Whether it's the preacher or the atheist making them.


OK, I'll bite.

The Earth is either 4.6 billion years old, give or take 1% as described in all science museums, or it's 6000 years old as described in the creation museum, Sarah Palin's notebook, and Conservapedia.

Sorry, I just couldn't stop myself.

Bee
Flip
Ace




PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:34 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

So that's it? 2 Choices? I can see inconsistency in both arguments. Here's the fun thing. I remember when the "6000" year formula started being used around the late 70's and early 80's. It was being used by "end time theorists". They took the verse " a day with the lord is as a thousand years" and used that to make the argument that "MAN" had only been here for 6 thousand and that we were in the "7th" or end of days. Somehow over time it changed to the "earth" being around for 6000 years using the same formula. That wasn't the case initially. Smoties own argument of light years shows the inconsistency of his beliefs. Somebody a while back proposed a "6000" year formula, it gained popularity and was passed around as truth. Most people my age or younger don't realize it's a very new concept that people came up with to impress people to think the end was near. Here's where I see some assumptions you've made Smotie. First off, no one knows how long the Earth was here before God put Adam and Eve on it. Could have been billions of years or 6 days. No one knows how long Adam and Eve were here before they sinned. Could have been billions of years or a day. So to try and date things or get a sense of time from the creation story is "impossible". No way to know because you have to assume too much.

Same thing with the age of the Earth. A group got together a while back. Made an attempt to date the Earth. The science seemed reasonable enough, so it gains acceptance. Now me and bee tell our children that the Earth is 4 1/2 billion years old and before long everyone just accepts it as truth. Your argument dies on the basis of tradition:) The thing is, Smotie is right. Either they have miscalculated the age of the Earth, or their measurements of light years is flawed. Either way, I wouldn't develop a belief system based on either one of these "theories".
BUBBALOU
Insane!




PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:15 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Religions are Cults (all of them - no exception)
Churches are places for Profit and Control
One learns from self experience not rules and regulations


Faith is only found in one place, when you wake it shall find you

_________________
I seem to have a better workout dodging your stupidity than attempting to grasp the weight of your intelligence
Flip
Ace




PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:44 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

When I wake up in the morning, I see perfection. Not an accident. I see absolute perfection, a entirely flawless world. I can make no argument about how nature could be improved upon. It's entirely self sufficient and self renewing to the point of poetry. The only flaw I see is man himself.
Bee
Miss Priss




PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:15 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Flip wrote:
When I wake up in the morning, I see perfection. Not an accident. I see absolute perfection, a entirely flawless world. I can make no argument about how nature could be improved upon. It's entirely self sufficient and self renewing to the point of poetry. The only flaw I see is man himself.


I see an imperfect world full of killing in the name of God. I see greed, starvation, little girls being raped and murdered, diseases and childrens hospitals and even without man there would still be hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, fires and volcanic eruptions to name a few.

This planet is about as flawed as it can get so I don't see the poetry.

Bee
Flip
Ace




PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:34 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Well I guess if you made a real living breathing world it would look like a McDonalds ball pit?

EDIT: Honestly I don't want to get into an argument about what each of us sees. My response was to bubbalou. He basically said "Be your own God" and I replied I damn sure would except: Hard to think there's not a God who might think differently than I do. Simple as that. I was more interested in pointing out inconsistencies of both religion and science.
Bee
Miss Priss




PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:50 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Sorry Flip. I just go off when religion is passed off as science. I want to see a separation of the two. No offense.

Off to see Avatar for the third time.....

Bee
Flatlander
Hotshot




PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:58 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

An Index to Creationist Claims
BUBBALOU
Insane!




PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:12 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

This is kind of amuzing, so if someone mentions that God is not to be found at a church..... then they decree that God is nowhere to be found.

there goes that control factor rearing it's ugly head again unless you're tax exempt Smile

_________________
I seem to have a better workout dodging your stupidity than attempting to grasp the weight of your intelligence
Flip
Ace




PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:14 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Heh I can see why people get frustrated with you Bee. Nowhere did I try to pass religion off as science.
E=MC2. That's science.
To the best that we can gather, the earth is 4 1/2 billion years old. Not science.

I was trying to point out one thing. Smotie thinks the earth is 6000 years old. The length of a light year is contradictory to his belief.
In that very same way. "Science" tells us that the earth is 4 1/2 billion years old.
The length of a light year is contradictory to that belief.
Flip
Ace




PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:25 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

We must have posted at the same time Bubbalou. Yeah I assumed you were an atheist, my mistake. On that note we agree then. That's why I use the words of Paul,

Quote:
There is no one righteous, not even one;

11there is no one who understands,

no one who seeks God.

12All have turned away,

they have together become worthless;

there is no one who does good,

not even one.”c

13“Their throats are open graves;

their tongues practice deceit.”d

“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”e

14“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”f

15“Their feet are swift to shed blood;

16ruin and misery mark their ways,

17and the way of peace they do not know.”g

18“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”


See to me, it's real hard not to believe in a creator just by looking at nature itself, but no one can be trusted. So just like you said, figure it out for yourself. That way no one can lie to you.
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