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roid
Inane!




PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:02 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

i've actually been enjoying the info in the thread.
lol i have no idea how this escalated.

just carry on guys.


CBs woohoo


Quote:
Roid, you have no idea what your talking about

_________________
i'm here to ... uh,
BUBBALOU
Insane!




PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:18 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

roid wrote:
CBs woohoo


Passive Aggressive with a touch of Zoloft [clap clap] Razz

_________________
I seem to have a better workout dodging your stupidity than attempting to grasp the weight of your intelligence
STRESSTEST
DBB Admin




PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:31 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

roid wrote:
It sounds like your just a selfish douche, do you drive an oversized hummer too and force people off the road? Coz as long as the cops are underfunded and understaffed you can get away with doing whatever you want - fuck the road lines, everyone get outof my way.

You are the spam of the airwaves



I'm sorry, did I miss something here? You are gonna start name calling because I am trying to clarify the difference to you? Also clarifying the difference because you are there and I am here and culture is different? And since I am taking the time to explain things you may or may not understand, you are going to attack me? Whats with the name calling and do you REALLY want to continue down this path?

_________________
BFDiddy - "You play with your friends wii? Does that make you gay?"

JBOMB - "kinda...cause after you smoke enough bowls you end up realizing you are both 2 idiots jumping around in front of a tv.."
roid
Inane!




PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:48 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

actually i was just frustrated that you havn't explained yourself.

my posts can be summarised as "stresstest your actions seem selfish"

What ya got Mr Threats? Gonna censor me for calling you out on it?
Stop threatening to explain yourself frankly using adult language and your big voice - coz that's exactly WHAT i want you to do!
It's clearly the only way i'm going to understand coz i'm so fucking oblivious (protip: i'm NOT being sarcastic).
I know you think this forum is some kinda club with your BFFs, but actually not everyone here knows you. I don't know you - i can't read your cues, your moods, your innuendoes. I don't know, nor want to know, your first name.

BUBBALOU wrote:
roid wrote:
CBs woohoo


Passive Aggressive with a touch of Zoloft [clap clap] Razz


No, it's an interesting thread. And i had the sudden realisation that this drama would indeed KILL THE DISCUSSION. So i backed away and had a laugh at myself to break the TENSION that constantly paralyses all you choir girls. Don't talk to me about passive aggressiveness - this place is like the set of Big Love - shh shh no-one rock the precious boat.

This place has been infected with Bettina's moral sensibilities, "Oh no, don't swear! Or i'll sit in my corner and POUT". Everyone has become a fucking fragile flower, scared shitless of stepping on delicate toes and offending fragile egos.

NO
FUCK THAT SHIT

_________________
i'm here to ... uh,
Pun
DBB Admin




PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:03 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

lol

Okay, let me ask a question. Does roid have a point here? Isn't all that big power going to make your transmissions bleed over into other channels, into people's TV or computer speakers? Don't a lot of people beef up their shit because they can step the fuck all over someone else's talk? I know there's a benefit of being able to get out a long distance and talk to people 100 miles away but doesn't it fuck the "normal" user up? Having all that power is great, but isn't there a reason the FCC regs are in place?

Discuss.
Bunyip
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:16 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Last I checked I was the only one trying in any way to be "politically correct" on this board... and that's only because I'm so naturally the complete opposite Smile The very thought of bettina's moral sensibilities affecting anyone "in power" on this board is so ridiculous as to be utterly laughable

I'm interested in Pun's question too however. How does having all that power etc affect everyone else? Are the regulations bullshit or do they serve a purpose?

_________________
BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it, or who has said it,
not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense. - GAUTAMA BUDDHA
Bunyip
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:28 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

also, in re: CB's etc, I see that kind of stuff occasionally when I go on the garage sale trail... If I wanted to try to get in on the cheap is there anything I should be looking for? Hidden gems etc?

_________________
BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it, or who has said it,
not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense. - GAUTAMA BUDDHA
STRESSTEST
DBB Admin




PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:59 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Okay... lets get some 101 going on here.

Specifically about the agenda about watt limits and how they tie into the bleed-over on consumer electronics.

Do watts bleed over on electronics? Sometimes they do but not directly!

To address why 4 watts is the limit for CB and 1500 is the limit for HAM (Only on some bands as there are limits below that for some)
All I can say is HAMs pay a fee and renewals to the FCC.. call it a license to pump up and a pass against bleed-over complaints.

make no mistake, HAMs bleedover all the time.

Take a look at FCC regulation part 95. This is where the definitions are laid out.
http://www.repeater-builder.com/fcc/2008-part-95-rules.pdf

Part 15 WHY they look at the owners of equipment of affected devices as the fault. consumer electronics fall under this sections as well.


Quote:

This device complies with Part 15 of the FCC Rules. Operation is subject to the following two conditions:

(1) This device may not cause harmful interference, and

(2) This device must accept any interference received, including interference that may cause undesired operation.


My take on it is they (HAMs) get a pass since they studied some material and paid a fee. That is my opinion though. Remember, Part 15 only states the device must survive interference, not filter it out. From a manufacturing standpoint, what makes more sense?

What causes bleed-over

Aside from shoddy practices in manufacturing world wide now in terms of filtering there are some culprits.

First lets understand a few things. There are some things you have to understand about the environment and how things work scientifically. I'll make it real simple so everyone can follow along.

Polarization:

There are two basic types here
1. Vertically Polarized
2 Horizontally Polarized

Using these two types as the key to everything below, you should know there are issues with 2 same-polarized entities play together.

* Electrical Lines by nature are polarized vertically by the time they hit your box and the same is true for Phones
* Broadcast antennas come in both flavors, Vert and Horz.


Verticals


Horizontals




Then you have hybrids that have two coax feed points on them and can be switched to go vertical, or horizontal or both at the same time



Likelihood of interference is compounded when you have a vertical antenna and are in a residential area since they are polarized the same way. The RF can hop onto similarly polarized conductible devices such as wire or circuits.

Adding an amp to this (On any band mind you, HAMs included) enhances the likelihood of it happening.

Here's where things take a twist and hopefully everything makes sense so far.

Hams for the most part talk on SSB (Single Side Band) and CB is done on AM (Amplitude Modulated) and there's the rub. CBers can talk on SSB too is they have a radio that has the ability, but mostly they are used in AM mode. What does this mean? When SSB is used there is no carrier wave to the signal. If you were sitting right next to someone using SSB and they had the mic pressed but they weren't saying anything, your radio would have no signal from there station at all. Once they started to talk, your radio's meter would show movement as they spoke. AM works with a carrier wave so in the same situation you would see your meter move up to the top of its range and wiggle a little as they spoke since the AM carrier is amplified with voice. AM, significantly increases the risk of bleed-over

I wont get into more specifics on the differences of RF signal waves between AM, SSB and FM, but google is your friend. I am intentionally leaving this simple for everyone reading.

Now the major culprit of interference, Modulation.

Modulation is the volume of your voice on whatever RF signal you are broadcasting. If you have low modulation you can yell into your mic and still sound very low even with a very strong signal to the receiving station. For this reason folks usually increase the modulation on their transmitters to reach and exceed 100% modulation on test equipment. Once done you can have a very low signal, lets say, to a receiving station but because your modulation is high, you can be pulled out of all the underlying static.

This is where most (90%+) of interference comes from, over modulation. There is more to modulation than just making a change to the radio as most would think, it can also tie into how much carrier you have and then once modulated over the AM carrier, amplified even higher

For example

if you have a radio that keys (called a dead key) 4 watts with no modulation and when you speak will move the watt meter to 10 watts, this would be considered pretty stock.

If you were to remove the modulation limiter circuit from the radio that same radio now will dead-key 4 watts and swing to 20ish. This would be in the neighborhood of 130% modulation. And would cause bleed-over in some circumstances given proximity and antenna type not to mention quality of electronics in that vicinity.

I use a radio at the head of all my amps that dead-keys 2.5 watts and swings to 90 watts with modulation. On the same test meter that would be about 130% modulation too, but to truly know, you need an oscilloscope to measure it. My radio on a scope is more in the 220% modulation area.

Would I run it this way on a base? No. I would get complaints from neighbors no matter if my antenna was vertical or horizontal.

But would I run a 4 watt swinging 20? Sure, no problem.

Would I run a 4 watt radio into a 1000 watt base amp? yes, over a horizontally polarized antenna, but not over a vertical antenna. for that I would drop it down to the 250 watt range. On a base station you wouldn't need more than that to talk local. The horizontal antennas are used for skip conditions in order to talk all over the world. They are called beam antennas as by design they focus their radiation area into one direction which gives you gain over an omni directional vertical antenna. The atmosphere is horizontal too, so they work well together. No one uses them for local talk.

It's early and I am distracted at work. If I missed anything, let me know. I don't want this to turn into a RF, Antenna, Amp, Radio theory discussion, so I may refer you to go read something in the replies if you go there.

_________________
BFDiddy - "You play with your friends wii? Does that make you gay?"

JBOMB - "kinda...cause after you smoke enough bowls you end up realizing you are both 2 idiots jumping around in front of a tv.."
Pun
DBB Admin




PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:16 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Thanks for the info. But I feel my question hasn't been answered. Surely some people are motivated to "go big" so they can get out far, but some of these guys must be motivated by the ability to "step on" someone else's transmission, no?
STRESSTEST
DBB Admin




PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:01 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Pun wrote:
Thanks for the info. But I feel my question hasn't been answered. Surely some people are motivated to "go big" so they can get out far, but some of these guys must be motivated by the ability to "step on" someone else's transmission, no?


Thought I had already covered that for you on page 1, Vince

STRESSTEST wrote:
You cant swing your cock with a cell phone either Smile

Yes, there are battles / shootouts / big dog wins. Some times it's about who can be heard.

_________________
BFDiddy - "You play with your friends wii? Does that make you gay?"

JBOMB - "kinda...cause after you smoke enough bowls you end up realizing you are both 2 idiots jumping around in front of a tv.."
Bunyip
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:42 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Stresstest:

Bunyip wrote:
also, in re: CB's etc, I see that kind of stuff occasionally when I go on the garage sale trail... If I wanted to try to get in on the cheap is there anything I should be looking for? Hidden gems etc?


I think I slipped that in while you were posting your monster...

_________________
BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it, or who has said it,
not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense. - GAUTAMA BUDDHA
Pun
DBB Admin




PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:36 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

STRESSTEST wrote:
Pun wrote:
Thanks for the info. But I feel my question hasn't been answered. Surely some people are motivated to "go big" so they can get out far, but some of these guys must be motivated by the ability to "step on" someone else's transmission, no?


Thought I had already covered that for you on page 1, Vince

STRESSTEST wrote:
You cant swing your cock with a cell phone either Smile

Yes, there are battles / shootouts / big dog wins. Some times it's about who can be heard.


I'll accept that. But, I'll ask another question. What will the experience of a guy with $300 in his radio equipment be like? Are they constantly wishing they could put out more power because they keep getting stepped on by guys with 4 grand sunk into their radios? In other words, is there still fun to be had with an entry level rig?
STRESSTEST
DBB Admin




PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:10 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Absolutely you can have fun. The bigger stuff happens on channel 6 when there are those beloved skip conditions and local talk usually at night primetime with the locals. But when you are going down the road, good times.

The other thing is you need to figure out what channel everyone is talking on in your area. If you were to get out on the weekend or night and do some BSing, you need to find where your locals talk.

When you find there are people further away you want to talk to and they have a hard time hearing you is when you go out and get your first 350 watt amp Smile


bun, I saw that post, but what you are asking is a loaded question.. There are SOOOOO many different types to keep an eye out for

here is a short list

Tram D201 and D201a ( sub 300 these are base stations)
Anything that says Browning on it (Base radios only)
Uniden GrantXL (sub 75 dollar)
President Lincoln (sub 125)
President Madison (sub 150 this is a base)
Uniden HR2510 and HR2600 (sub 125)
Cobra 25LTD and 29LTD (Sub 25 and 45 respectively)
Cobra 2000 (sub 200 this is a base)
RCI 2950, 2970 in regular or DX flavors (sub 150)
Any RCI, Ranger, Galaxy, Connex base station (Sub 250)
DAK mark 9 or 10 (sub 250 these are base stations)

I could come up with 50 more off the top of my head

_________________
BFDiddy - "You play with your friends wii? Does that make you gay?"

JBOMB - "kinda...cause after you smoke enough bowls you end up realizing you are both 2 idiots jumping around in front of a tv.."
Pun
DBB Admin




PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:28 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

I know the Cobra 25 is relatively small already, but is there anything more compact that would give the same performance and quality? I have absolutely no room in my vehicle.
STRESSTEST
DBB Admin




PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:52 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Bare bones, but the Uniden Pro 520XL or 510XL are great little radios especially with with a peak and tune from your local tech and a after market mic. I prefer the Astatic D104-M6B microphone as it has a built in pre-amp

_________________
BFDiddy - "You play with your friends wii? Does that make you gay?"

JBOMB - "kinda...cause after you smoke enough bowls you end up realizing you are both 2 idiots jumping around in front of a tv.."
VonVulcan
Hotshot




PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:33 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Interesting stuff here, I think I just learned somethin!?! Smile
I have a couple 2510s layin around here somewhere and an Antron 99 mounted on the house. I had no idea you were into CBs.

_________________
(20:12) STRESSTEST: Im actually innocent this time.
STRESSTEST
DBB Admin




PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:52 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

give me your 2510s Smile

_________________
BFDiddy - "You play with your friends wii? Does that make you gay?"

JBOMB - "kinda...cause after you smoke enough bowls you end up realizing you are both 2 idiots jumping around in front of a tv.."
Ferno
BDSM Fanatic




PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:02 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

holy shit. I thought I was the only one who studied radio frequencies, antenna designs, portable transmitters, trunk stations and the like.

Thank you Bill, those few posts of yours take me back to the fun I had with a backpack based and hand-held CB devices. Channel 19 and 25 up here were great to listen to during the night, when the truckers started yakking.

I still wish I had that hand-held.
VonVulcan
Hotshot




PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:17 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Always the jokster. Smile I went up to B-ham today, got hung up at Smokey Point rest area with a flat. 7:00 till 8:40 am. Turned to channel 8 and nothing but dead air. Then when I got back to Puyallup I saw this...





Check out that antenna mount on the car behind the semi. Not to good a pic, sorry.

_________________
(20:12) STRESSTEST: Im actually innocent this time.
roid
Inane!




PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:00 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

wow. maybe it tilts forward and he uses it for car jousting?

_________________
i'm here to ... uh,
Bunyip
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:42 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

That's about what I saw on that corvette I mentioned earlier... although the base on that one looks like it's a at least twice as tall as the one on the 'vette... guy must be pretty serious or maybe he's a mobile air traffic controller

_________________
BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it, or who has said it,
not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense. - GAUTAMA BUDDHA
STRESSTEST
DBB Admin




PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:14 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Thats a multi band HAM antenna. There is a pickup coil in the mast that moves up and down in the shaft to make it tune to a desired band.

_________________
BFDiddy - "You play with your friends wii? Does that make you gay?"

JBOMB - "kinda...cause after you smoke enough bowls you end up realizing you are both 2 idiots jumping around in front of a tv.."
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