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Bee
Miss Priss




PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:13 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

I don't know what's worse. The spread of Islam or the spread of Conservapedia. Some highlights of the new social study standards adopted by the Texas school board of education.

1. Teachers in Texas will be required to cover the Judeo-Christian influences of the nation's Founding Fathers, but not highlight the philosophical rationale for the separation of church and state.

2. Replaces "democratic" in references to the form of U.S. government with "constitutional republic."

3. Adds references to "laws of nature and nature's God" to a section in U.S. history that requires students to explain major political ideas.

4. Stresses religion over evolution.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35839979/ns/us_news-education/

Bee
Thorne
Ace




PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:32 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Bee wrote:
3. Adds references to "laws of nature and nature's God" to a section in U.S. history that requires students to explain major political ideas.

Yeah, that is one of many like it in our founding documents and the writings of the founders (that actually comes from the Declaration of Independence). That is certainly appropriate for explaining the ideas behind the founding of this nation, though I think it's almost a shame to call them "political", as that's almost a dirty word anymore.

Bee wrote:
2. Replaces "democratic" in references to the form of U.S. government with "constitutional republic."

What is wrong with that, anyway?

And let me help you with the preceding quote with a little before and after...
Bee wrote:
1. Teachers in Texas will be required to cover the Judeo-Christian influences of the nation's Founding Fathers (bravo), but not highlight the philosophical rationale for the separation of church and state.

Translation wrote:
1. Teachers in Texas will be required to cover the Judeo-Christian influences of the nation's Founding Fathers, but not highlight the philosophical rationale for the separation of Judeo-Christian thought from the political arena.

Well that really is a shame.

_________________
"Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might;
for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going."
Spidey
Hotshot




PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:54 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Those evil conservatives are at it again, huh…just when you thought it was safe to run naked in the streets.

_________________
Better to be pissed off, than to be pissed on.
roid
Inane!




PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:23 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Thorne wrote:
That is certainly appropriate for explaining the ideas behind the founding of this nation

In response to this, i quote this:

Interview between Bill Mayer and Ray Suarez in documentary film "Religulous" @ 32:32 (min:sec).
Religulous Documentary - interview between Bill Mayer and Ray Suarez wrote:
- How did this country get to be a Christian nation? I've read a lot of quotes from all the Founding Fathers. There are a lot of quotes that explicitly say we're not a Christian nation.

"Lighthouses are more useful than churches." - Benjamin Franklin

"This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it!" - John Adams

"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man." - Thomas Jefferson


And Jefferson's a particularly interesting case.

- Didn't he write his own Bible which divorced the New Testament from what he considered the unnecessary magic, bells and whistles?

He took the Gospels, took out all of Jesus's miracles and took out all of Jesus's statements that claimed divinity, and put out a new book called ''The Faith and Moral Teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.'' We tend to lionize these guys and think of them all as the 12 Apostles plus the Founding Fathers, like they're in the same club or something. When in fact, these men understood very well that there was a difference between being Christian and being American.
In Jefferson's age, fewer people went to church, and less often.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Enlightenment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Enlightenment wrote:
The American Enlightenment is a term sometimes employed to describe the intellectual culture of the British North American colonies and the early United States (as they became known following the American Revolution). It was a part of a larger intellectual movement known as the Age of Enlightenment. Influenced by the scientific revolution of the 17th century, the Enlightenment took scientific reasoning and applied it to human nature, society and religion. Politically the age is distinguished by an emphasis upon liberty, democracy, republicanism and religious tolerance – culminating in the drafting of the United States Declaration of Independence. Attempts to reconcile science and religion resulted in a widespread rejection of prophecy, miracle and revealed religion in preference for Deism – especially by Thomas Paine in "The Age of Reason" and by Thomas Jefferson in his short Jefferson Bible – from which all supernatural aspects were removed.


Some more quotes from USA founding fathers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwv4xHIe0gM#t=36s


Also, the Conservapedia is hilarious. It's great. It's is a wonderfully ostentatious statue errected in honour of idiocy, and i don't want it to go away. It serves it's purpose
It took me a long time to realise it wasn't actually a parody though, due to Poe's Law.
http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Poe's_Law
http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Poe's_Law wrote:
Poe's Law states:[1]
“ Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing. ”

Poe's Law points out that it is hard to tell parodies of fundamentalism (or, more generally, any crackpot theory) from the real thing, since they both seem equally insane. Conversely, real fundamentalism can easily be mistaken for a parody of fundamentalism. For example, some conservatives consider noted homophobe Fred Phelps to be so over-the-top that they argue he's a "deep cover liberal" trying to discredit more mainstream homophobes.

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i'm here to ... uh,
Thorne
Ace




PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:43 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Have you read the Declaration of Independence which was signed by so many? You should read some of Thomas Paine's stuff. He's clearly not Deist in his thinking. Whether he ever changed his mind to or from that I don't know. (Edit: According to his preface in The Age of Reason, "It is more than eighteen years since I proposed the independence and the establishment of the American Republic") Benjamin Franklin is famous for his speech in which says that if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without God's knowledge, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid (before suggesting that they begin every meeting thereafter with prayer). That doesn't sound to me like the Benjamin Franklin that Bill Mayer would claim to distill. That's certainly not Deist. Some of these guys referenced the Bible more than I do. Wink These men weren't preachers or apostles, but from what I've read so far they had a great respect for the Bible.

I don't know about Jefferson. I can't say I've read anything of his, specifically.

Bill Mayer is a fool with an agenda. You would be better off reading the material for yourself.

_________________
"Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might;
for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going."
roid
Inane!




PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:41 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Thorne wrote:
Have you read the Declaration of Independence which was signed by so many? You should read some of Thomas Paine's stuff. He's clearly not Deist in his thinking. Whether he ever changed his mind to or from that I don't know. (Edit: According to his preface in The Age of Reason, "It is more than eighteen years since I proposed the independence and the establishment of the American Republic")


i suppose this is possible, but i would say it's unlikely given what's mentioned in these references. Paine had a flair for sermon rhetoric, could speak to the common man and would often appeal to their Christian sensibilities in doing so. A means to an end, i even do it myself.
And in the end, the time he wrote his anti-religious writings does nothing to diminish their impact and importance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Age_of_Reason#Religious_influences
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Paine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

The founding fathers were clearly children of the Enlightenment. You could say otherwise if you ignore everything i'm linking you to, over and over. Why don't you try to read some of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Enlightenment

_________________
i'm here to ... uh,
Thorne
Ace




PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:04 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

You seem to know his pretty well for someone who is separated by so many years. I think "importance" is a matter of opinion, and I would question what you claim as the impact. The Age of Reason is apparently, as he claims, his final work, in writing. I think it's evident he came to some wrong conclusions. Whether he held those at the time of his involvement in the American Revolution may not be certain, but he did clearly reference the Bible as an authority, in earlier writings.

Why don't I read some of it? I do read some of it. I don't necessarily trust opinion, even popular opinion, when it comes to history. I like to read things for myself. I know that it is popular opinion that the founding fathers were Deists, and I don't buy it.

_________________
"Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might;
for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going."
Zuruck
Ace




PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:29 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Bill Maher has an agenda? hahaha...oh man that's fucking hilarious. Thorne, keep going man, this shit is better than watching reruns of the Palin / Couric interview!!
Bee
Miss Priss




PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 6:37 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Flat earth Party of God conservatives bent on dumbing down american children has begun...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37271857/ns/us_news-life/?GT1=43001

Bee
Spidey
Hotshot




PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 6:59 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Yea really, who do those dumb conservatives think they are…nobody can do a better job of dumbing down children than the liberal run big city public school system. (just ask Detroit)

Sheesh, a man’s got to know his limitations. Rolling Eyes

_________________
Better to be pissed off, than to be pissed on.
dissent
Hotshot




PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 8:48 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Spidey, education is not hard. As long as they know enough to punch the name next to the letter "D" on the ballot, our liberal masters will be happy.

_________________
It is a mistake to think businessmen are more immoral than politicians - John Maynard Keynes
Woodchip
Ace




PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 10:08 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

All I can say is, "Obama mmm...mmm...mmm". Pretty much sums up the Dems view on education eh? Wink
Bunyip
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 11:22 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Let's face it - it's in nobody's interest (but their own) for the voters to be educated. Just so long as they're easily led.

_________________
BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it, or who has said it,
not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense. - GAUTAMA BUDDHA
Behemoth
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:35 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Can't say i know much about the personal lives of the founders, But i for one can say i never considered them "Christian" as if that means much these days anyway.
Religion is a dangerous thing in my mind, but for some it is a useful tool, I don't believe Jesus Christ preached and taught what he did, to make a religion. I do believe theres a sad misunderstanding of the words and that people all too easily fall into just reading but not following.
Also, when was the last time this country could have been considered a 'Fair' democracy? Last i remember it's been polluted by lobbyists and bankers agenda dollar politicians forever.
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