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   Descent BB Forum Index > Ethics and Commentary > what's USA's healthcare system like? Post new topic   Reply to topic
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roid
Inane!




PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:39 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

i dunno.

i hear poor people can't afford healthcare. Does that happen?
ie: can't afford insurance, and can't afford to pay medical fees, can't afford medicines (coz medicine is expensive).

Just so you know where i'm comming from. I don't live in USA.
I have no health insurance. But when i goto my local doctor it doesn't cost me anything, when i goto the chemist to get by prescriptions: all medicines are under $5 per box (although i see on the box it says that the original cost is actually hundreds of dollars - wow really?). Even visits to the emergency ward cost me nothing, all free.
The government pays for all of it.
I think the international term for this is "universal healthcare", i've never known any different (and like any kid i was at the emergency ward a fair bit, all free).

I chose to get my eyes lazered a few weeks ago and i had to pay for that coz it's elective surgery (ie: it wasn't a necessity).

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MD-2389
Insane!




PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:59 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

The difference is that you pay for all of that through taxes. Our tax system is just a tad different than yours, since any tax increase would be political suicide. The insurance companies use this as justification for ramping up premiums. The current economic condition just makes it worse.

Just for an example, I'm currently insured through Assurant Health. My current premium is nearly $400 every quarter, which comes out to be around $133 a month. Should something happen, any hospital visit cost would be drastically reduced to a small amount. (Depending on the reason) The small amount would just be a co-pay, the rest would be billed to the insurance company. Luckily, I've never had to claim anything. *knocks on wood*

Before the economy went into the shitter, I was paying 1/3 of that per quarter.
Grendel
Ninja Admin




PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:55 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Healthcare in the US: controlled by the medical industry, ie. hillariously expensive. Health insurance premiums are going up every year by 10-20% for the last ten years or so. So every year you have to cut down on services to be able to afford some basic insurance at least. If you don't you are fucked once you get a medical problem that needs some more serious attention. You'll end up w/ a bill that you can only shake by filing bankruptcy. Oh, and after that happened, good luck finding an insurance that will take you on even if you can magically afford one.

Wiki has some material.

_________________
Borders? I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds of some people. -- Thor Heyerdahl
Durch einen Stich bereits geschafft, erschlafft und ohne Saft und Kraft! -- Donald, examining a Deflator Dextrospirillus
Zuruck
Ace




PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:21 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

MD-2389 wrote:
The difference is that you pay for all of that through taxes. Our tax system is just a tad different than yours, since any tax increase would be political suicide. The insurance companies use this as justification for ramping up premiums. The current economic condition just makes it worse.

Just for an example, I'm currently insured through Assurant Health. My current premium is nearly $400 every quarter, which comes out to be around $133 a month. Should something happen, any hospital visit cost would be drastically reduced to a small amount. (Depending on the reason) The small amount would just be a co-pay, the rest would be billed to the insurance company. Luckily, I've never had to claim anything. *knocks on wood*

Before the economy went into the shitter, I was paying 1/3 of that per quarter.


Of course, that is to say that if you had something major happen, your insurance company wouldn't go and say it was pre-existing and then claim they didn't have to pay. Then you'd be stuck with the bill even though you had been paying your premiums all along.
Krom
DBB Admin




PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:05 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

MD-2389 wrote:
Should something happen, any hospital visit cost would be drastically reduced to a small amount. (Depending on the reason) The small amount would just be a co-pay, the rest would be billed to the insurance company. Luckily, I've never had to claim anything. *knocks on wood*


Yeah lucky because you are forgetting about straight up claim denials, and deductibles. The deductible is some amount stamped on your policy that they will not cover even if it is a specifically covered procedure, till you use up your deductible you will pay for all charges that come through. Meaning for the most part of yearly checkups or just having your flu looked at, you will pay for ALL of it out of pocket even if you have insurance. The only benefit you get is the insurance negotiated discount still applies, but its usually a laughable 1-3% reduction at most.

The deductible rises with age, usually starting at $500-$1,500 for someone in their 20s, $7,500-$10,000 is not unusual for someone in their 60s. It also resets every year, so if you break a leg in December and get billed $10,000 for surgery to patch it up, you will have to pay the entire $10,000 deductible for December... only to have it reset in January so you will have to pay another $10,000 in January for rehabilitation.

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Neo
[deleted]




PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:41 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Grendel wrote:
Healthcare in the US: controlled by the medical industry, ie. hillariously expensive. Health insurance premiums are going up every year by 10-20% for the last ten years or so. So every year you have to cut down on services to be able to afford some basic insurance at least. If you don't you are fucked once you get a medical problem that needs some more serious attention. You'll end up w/ a bill that you can only shake by filing bankruptcy. Oh, and after that happened, good luck finding an insurance that will take you on even if you can magically afford one.

Wiki has some material.


hiya, roid. Grendel almost hit the nail on the head here. Roid, watch the documentary entitled Sicko by Michael MoOo0re, or whatever his name is. Smile It seems like you are asking for a concrete description of what it's like. In short, the healthcare system in the United States (or the lack thereof) is a sick joke.
Perediablo
Ace




PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:11 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Have you seen how the insurance billing works? I've searched but cannot find this specific incident so I will try to remember the best I can.

A man has insurance and has a broken arm. his co-pay is $30, his deductible has been paid for the year I assume, so all he owed was $30 dollars.

Wondering what it would cost without insurance, he inquired. The total came out to $350.

The total billed to the insurance company was $2,500. Holy crap.

That is fuxed up. No wonder insurance costs so much. Hope they don't try that crap on us when insurance declines to pay. pffft Anyone want to move to my island when I buy it?

_________________
"To design is to communicate clearly by whatever means you can control or master." _Milton Glaser
Bunyip
DBB Staff




PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:10 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

The really fucked up thing is that they billed the insurance company $2,500.00 in order to end up with that same $350.00 after the insurance company denied 85% of the claim on bullshit grounds. If they'd billed the insurance company $350.00 they would have been lucky to get $50.00, or so I'm told by friends in the medical field...

_________________
BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it, or who has said it,
not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense. - GAUTAMA BUDDHA
Perediablo
Ace




PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:37 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Ahhh...ok it is all becoming clearer. Join the crowd and get that brown shirt ready. Where will the socializing end? Is this just the beginning? Didn't this happen in the 30's in central Europe? Maybe that's a bit harsh. Feck it!

_________________
"To design is to communicate clearly by whatever means you can control or master." _Milton Glaser
Zuruck
Ace




PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:33 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

The shit point of the story is that this bill is not going to change much. They sky didn't fall, the world won't end, basically this bill was health insurance reform. This country needs actual health reform. We have the highest amount of money going to health care and one of the worst systems in the developed world. Yes, we have great hospitals and wonderful technology but it all becomes moot when it's run the way it is.

When it comes down to it, Republicans were happy with the status quo. They claimed to have better alternatives, but where were these alternatives when they were in power? Why do they always seem to just look the other way on this massive issue when they're in power? Do we not elect these people to improve our country and our way of life? We'd all live small government if it worked properly but to actually take the advice of some dimwit like Sarah Palin or John Boehner is akin to drinking poison.

The conservatives did everything they could to paint this issue as an affront to Americanism. It's easy to understand why. They've decided that the best way back into power is to completely block everything, that way when the govt comes to a halt, they can point the finger and act like it wasn't their fault. That is why they didn't want this to pass. They know that any kind of positive reaction to this bill hurts them. That is why they've blocked every little thing for Obama, regardless of how benign the issue is.

I wish Republicans had some sort of brain working for them because the issues are only going to get harder in the future. This country is going to deal with an increasingly insolvent Social Security, the debt has to be looked at some day. When are we finally going to stop spending more than the rest of the world combined on defense? Do we really need a new fleet of stealth jets? If we cut our defense budget in HALF, we'd still spend more than 100 times what China spends. By the time the war in Iraq is over, we could have paid for real healthcare multiple times over. This outlandish spending of money has to stop.
MD-2389
Insane!




PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:29 am View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Perediablo wrote:
Ahhh...ok it is all becoming clearer. Join the crowd and get that brown coats ready.


I'll pass on the word to Nathan Fillion. He can save us!


All kidding aside, the way the bill is written now, it won't do a damn thing. This has turned into nothing more than a Dems vs. Repub. shooting match, and we're all stuck in the middle paying for their arrogance! To make matters worse, the republican side is backed by the pharmaceutical and insurance industries, which is pouring everything they can into jacking this bill up. Then you have the democrats, whom just throw shit in to piss off the republicans. Do you people honestly think these highly paid idiots give a rats ass about our health care system, when they don't have to deal with it themselves? As soon as they were elected, they're set for life, because we're paying their salaries! WE are the ones footing the bill for their all expense paid health care.

When will you people get it through your heads that this isn't just about party politics? Our government has gotten to the point where it doesn't serve the needs of the people anymore. It's become nothing more than a greedy, self-serving clubhouse for those with enough clout to get elected in.
dissent
Hotshot




PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:35 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

roid wrote:
i hear poor people can't afford healthcare.

yet they can still get it - at any public hospital emergency room, at least for emergency care.
Many hospitals and free clinics are often available to provide free or low cost routine medical care. It probably isn't convenient, but it is low cost, or free.

Quote:
But when i goto my local doctor it doesn't cost me anything, when i goto the chemist to get by prescriptions: all medicines are under $5 per box (although i see on the box it says that the original cost is actually hundreds of dollars - wow really?).

as you noted earlier, medicine, and medical care, can be expensive.
You may not be paying for it, but somebody else is.


Quote:
Even visits to the emergency ward cost me nothing, all free.
The government pays for all of it.

Wrong. The government has no money of its own. The government gets its money by the collection of taxes. The government pays for nothing. Taxpayers pay for it.


It's also pretty hilarious that nobody has mentioned the role of the 800 pound gorilla in the health care room, the government itself. Health care has to contend with a maze of state and federal regulatory requirements; on that ever shifting framework, doctors, hospitals, insurance companies and other health care providers must hang their attempts at providing health care. yeah,it's a mess; and the government has a major hand in it.

_________________
It is a mistake to think businessmen are more immoral than politicians - John Maynard Keynes
Spidey
Hotshot




PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:52 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Lol, the Democrats blow a chance at real health reform, and you know who, still uses 3 paragraphs to bitch on the Republicans.

You funny man.

_________________
Better to be pissed off, than to be pissed on.
Zuruck
Ace




PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:02 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Oh right Spidey. Because I'm sure the GOP would have been along for some drastic changes. They whined and bitched about the smallest of details...fuck them. My favorite line has been this whole "loss of freedom" bit. I don't remember you guys shouting this loud when the patriot act was "rammed down our throats". Fucking losers. All of you, spidey most of all

Democrats may not be worth much but the GOP is laughable at best.
Spidey
Hotshot




PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:14 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

I didn’t say or imply anything of the sort, the Republicans are totally irrelevant at the present time, but hey, it’s still fun to blame them.

You’re as predictable as a clock…

Tic Toc…Tic Toc…Tic Toc

_________________
Better to be pissed off, than to be pissed on.
MD-2389
Insane!




PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:59 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Nice to see that history is repeating itself...
Neo
[deleted]




PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:17 pm View user's profile Reply with quote Send private message

Zuruck wrote:
...this bill is not going to change much.


I'm thinking Zuruck is right here. I knew it was too good to be true. Americans can't use things like the metric system and universal health management. Very Happy
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